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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0001311Dwarf FortressWorld Generation -- Generalpublic2010-04-18 17:382014-01-26 08:35
Reporterjgoodwin 
Assigned ToToady One 
PrioritynormalSeveritymajorReproducibilityrandom
StatusresolvedResolutionfixed 
Platformx64OSwinOS Version7
Product Version0.31.03 
Target VersionFixed in Version0.34.01 
Summary0001311: World has caverns but one of the several dwarven civs doesn't have access to seeds/plants/drinks
DescriptionSeveral modified parameters in the world gen, but I have [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3] and don't think I modified any of the other parameters. I've re-genned and embarked on this world several times using the same seed/parameters, and always chose the same local region. One time I had no seeds/plants/fish/drink on the embark menu. The rest of the times I did.

On the time I had no seeds I prepared carefully and completely zeroed out all the embark items before assigning skills and coming back later to find no seeds etc. If the embark location makes a differene, the local region I'm using is
(making the origin at the upper left hand corner and counting down/right with the first row/column being zero):
World: down 2, right 11 (tree square)
Region: down 8, right 8 (rock square tucked in corner of river)
Local: 10x10, with the ulhc at down 3, right 1

I tried to reproduce exactly this embarkation once after seeing the failure and it didn't repro.

[WORLD_GEN]
    [TITLE:SometimesNoSeeds]
    [SEED:255937264]
    [HISTORY_SEED:3095975635]
    [NAME_SEED:676096039]
    [CREATURE_SEED:126394190]
    [DIM:129:129]
    [EMBARK_POINTS:1274]
    [END_YEAR:1050]
    [BEAST_END_YEAR:2:10]
    [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
    [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
    [ELEVATION:1:400:1600:1600]
    [RAINFALL:40:100:1600:1600]
    [TEMPERATURE:45:75:1600:1600]
    [DRAINAGE:40:100:1600:1600]
    [VOLCANISM:60:100:1600:1600]
    [SAVAGERY:40:100:1600:1600]
    [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:10:20:25:25:20]
    [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:99:99:99]
    [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:99:99:99]
    [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:10:10:1:1:30:60]
    [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:99:99]
    [TITAN_NUMBER:9]
    [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
    [DEMON_NUMBER:28]
    [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:100:1000:2000]
    [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:100:1000:2000]
    [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
    [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
    [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
    [VOLCANO_MIN:200]
    [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
    [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
    [RIVER_MINS:200:200]
    [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
    [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
    [SUBREGION_MAX:5000]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
    [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
    [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:300]
    [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:400]
    [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:800]
    [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:1]
    [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
    [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
    [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:20000]
    [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
    [ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
    [VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]
Steps To ReproduceSeems random, and not related to no-caverns.
Additional Information4GB Ram, 64-bit OS.
TagsFixed in 0.34.01?
Relationships
related to 0001127new  Worldgen without caverns does not allow embark with seeds/alcohol 
related to 0003607resolved Logical2u Cavern layer has water but no plants 
Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2010-04-18 17:38jgoodwinNew Issue
2010-04-18 18:09Logical2uNote Added: 0004149
2010-04-18 18:22FootkerchiefNote Added: 0004150
2010-04-18 18:22FootkerchiefRelationship addedchild of 0001127
2010-04-18 18:37FootkerchiefIssue Monitored: Footkerchief
2010-04-18 18:48Khym ChanurIssue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-04-18 19:02Logical2uIssue Monitored: Logical2u
2010-04-18 19:10MalicusNote Added: 0004162
2010-04-18 22:19jgoodwinNote Added: 0004185
2010-04-19 01:09FootkerchiefSummaryNo seeds/plants/drinks but with caves => World has caverns but one of the several dwarven civs doesn't have access to seeds/plants/drinks
2010-04-19 01:15GReadNote Added: 0004197
2010-04-19 04:29Logical2uIssue End Monitor: Logical2u
2010-04-26 20:06jgoodwinNote Added: 0005245
2010-11-15 13:40FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0003607
2010-11-24 11:19FootkerchiefNote Added: 0014191
2010-12-10 13:20FootkerchiefTag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.19?
2010-12-12 13:45VideospiritNote Added: 0014550
2011-02-17 20:34FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0004005
2011-02-22 14:48Khym ChanurIssue End Monitor: Khym Chanur
2011-02-22 14:48Khym ChanurIssue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2011-03-07 21:08monk12Issue Monitored: monk12
2011-03-08 18:07monk12Note Added: 0015983
2011-03-08 19:09monk12Note Added: 0015984
2012-01-07 20:01FootkerchiefTag Detached: Fixed in 0.31.19?
2012-01-07 20:01FootkerchiefTag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.26?
2012-01-19 10:23FootkerchiefRelationship replacedrelated to 0001127
2012-01-19 10:23FootkerchiefRelationship deletedrelated to 0004005
2012-02-14 05:12FootkerchiefTag RenamedFixed in 0.31.26? => Fixed in 0.34.01?
2014-01-26 08:35FootkerchiefNote Added: 0024359
2014-01-26 08:35FootkerchiefStatusnew => resolved
2014-01-26 08:35FootkerchiefFixed in Version => 0.34.01
2014-01-26 08:35FootkerchiefResolutionopen => fixed
2014-01-26 08:35FootkerchiefAssigned To => Toady One

Notes
(0004149)
Logical2u   
2010-04-18 18:09   
Are you selecting the same Dwarven parent civ on all embarks?

It's possible that one of the civs had terrible luck and doesn't have the appropriate cavern system on their parent site, but the rest do.
(0004150)
Footkerchief   
2010-04-18 18:22   
This is related to 0001127 but yeah, it's strange that your parent civ doesn't seem to have access to the caverns. Make sure to check what your parent civ is before embarking -- that might reveal a pattern.
(0004162)
Malicus   
2010-04-18 19:10   
I've noticed that caverns without ANY water will still be muddy but will never have plants. Maybe a dwarf civ somehow got stuck with three of these in its embark area and this is reflected in the supplies you can buy/bring? It seems odd (though maybe not in game logic) that they'd SURVIVE like that, though, unless they use outdoor plants and won't let you have any.
(0004185)
jgoodwin   
2010-04-18 22:19   
> Are you selecting the same Dwarven parent civ on all embarks?

That's it! I never realized that the list of things under civilization was selectable, or why a civilization had so many names -- I thought it was some kind of historical sequence or something.

With the repro given, selecting 'The Fortification of Spinn' (3rd on list), the issue reproduces consistently. All that the dwarves are equipped with by default (when preparing carefully) are:
copper picks (2)
copper battle axes (2)
iron anvil
horse meat (15)
chestnut buckets (3)
chestnut splints (3)
chestnut crutches (3)

And I thought The Fortification of Spinn was the a management technique!
(0004197)
GRead   
2010-04-19 01:15   
This looks like a bad seed or something. I genned the world and peaked in legends; *Everyone* who is not a megabeast or a semi-megabeast is dead by year 3, and there is only a single child born in that time. I wonder if this has something to do with it; although some of the other dead civs do have seeds.

Kind of funny actually; 1050 years of history and nothing is recorded after year 6, when the last of the demons with a site is killed by a megabeast in a world devoid of humans, dwarfs, elves and goblins.
(0005245)
jgoodwin   
2010-04-26 20:06   
Not so much a bad seed as bad world gen parameters. Other seeds with the same parameters also were depopulated. These parameters were what I was playing with on 40d. Once I had the hints above I was able to mess around more and with them and get things back to reasonable. There were several things I had to change. Any of them seemed to be enough to make everything die off. [SAVAGERY:40:100:1600:1600] is one big part of it. (40% minimum - I had been trying to get more evil with 40d and had it cranked way up without effect -- but in df2010 this setting actually does something). Then there's [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:400] and [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:800]. That's lots more caves than the default for this size map -- because I wanted caves in 40d and only ever got one -- but now they're apparently all full to the brim with deadly things. I had to fix all three of those worldgen settings and replace [SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0] with the default before I got any kind of humanoids back.

Anyhow, if you want to play last-dwarf-on-earth the world-gen parameters above are for you.
(0014191)
Footkerchief   
2010-11-24 11:19   
Reminder sent to: jgoodwin

So did this end up being solely due to bad worldgen paramters?
(0014550)
Videospirit   
2010-12-12 13:45   
I've genned worlds with dwarves missing 1 or more of the underground crops, so I don't believe it's solely because of bad worldgen parameters unless worldgen doesn't assign resources until year 2 and they got wiped out in year 1 or something.
(0015983)
monk12   
2011-03-08 18:07   
I have a .21 game right now where all the underground crops EXCEPT Plump Helmets were available. I was unable to request seeds, wine, or the plant itself at embark. I did change some worldgen parameters.

If this is related to worldgen parameters, I started with the basic Medium Region settings and then changed:

End Year: 199
Minimum Partial Edge Oceans: None
Minimum Complete Oceans: None
Titan Number: 12 (I think)
Desired Good&Evil Small Sub-regions- 50
Desired Good&Evil Medium Sub-regions- 502
Desired Good&Evil Large Sub-regions- 1006
All the initial/final square and region counts were set to zero for Oceans, Deserts, Wetlands
Cavern Layer Number: 1
Minimum Mid/Low/High Elevation/Rain/Drainage Squares: None
Minimum Mid/Low Savagery Squares: None

I'll report back whether I can get confirmation that the caravan will not bring me plump helmets/spawn/wine, as well as a report on whether I can gather any from my local caverns.
(0015984)
monk12   
2011-03-08 19:09   
After checking, I can confirm the presence of gatherable plump helmets in the caverns, and the fact that my civ does not have access to them. Note that my civ DOES have access to pig tails, dimple cups, sweet pods, dwarven ale/beer/rum, etc. For whatever reason, it is only Plump Helmets my civ lacks.
(0024359)
Footkerchief   
2014-01-26 08:35   
Please reopen this report or PM me on the forums if this bug is still present.