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0002375Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Combatpublic2010-06-19 04:002016-07-19 06:29
resolvedno change required 
0002375: Dwarf wears gauntlets, yet the mittens he wears under them are getting hit and penetrated
I had two fully armored soldiers with iron gauntlets take on a squad of enemies with silver+copper weapons. I got messages like

"The enemy strikes the dwarf in the left hand with his silver battle axe, tearing apart the muscle and smashing the bone through the +cave spider silk mitten+"

I also got the proper "The enemy strikes the dwarf in the left hand with his silver battle axe, but the strike is deflected by the +iron gauntlet+", but those few times that the mitten got hit were almost fatal.

Now, shouldn't the GAUNTLET he was wearing in that exact hand protect against injuries like these? Now both of them are in the hospital, one with both hands and the other with one hand smashed to pieces thanks to armor that doesn't work.
Get a soldier with a mitten and a gauntlet in the same hand fight an enemy, hope for a hit
No tags attached.
related to 0003196confirmed Footkerchief Weapon deflections are credited to the outermost layer of armor, even if an inner layer did the work 
Issue History
2010-06-19 04:00Orkel2New Issue
2010-06-19 11:06FootkerchiefNote Added: 0008684
2010-06-19 12:00musicmastermshNote Added: 0008689
2010-06-20 09:17Orkel2Note Added: 0008775
2010-06-20 09:21FootkerchiefNote Added: 0008776
2010-06-20 09:21FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0001060
2010-06-20 10:10Orkel2Note Added: 0008788
2010-06-20 10:11Orkel2Note Edited: 0008788bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0008788#r3361
2010-06-20 10:24FootkerchiefNote Added: 0008790
2010-06-20 10:37Orkel2Note Added: 0008794
2010-06-20 12:14FootkerchiefNote Added: 0008797
2010-06-20 12:14FootkerchiefRelationship deletedrelated to 0001060
2012-02-20 19:10FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0003196
2016-07-19 06:29LociNote Added: 0035657
2016-07-19 06:29LociStatusnew => resolved
2016-07-19 06:29LociResolutionopen => no change required
2016-07-19 06:29LociAssigned To => Loci

2010-06-19 11:06   
The "through the mitten" message most likely means that the axe had already pierced the gauntlet and then pierced the mitten too. It's expected and realistic that the gauntlets should block most of the blows but let a few through. Do you have any evidence suggesting that's not what happened?
2010-06-19 12:00   
Does a battle-worn gauntlet show wear and tear?
2010-06-20 09:17   
With the way the current combat system works, aka. worse material never penetrates good material, it's unlikely that the silver axe could have gotten through the iron gauntlet to hit the mitten. Atleast I think so. Maybe there's some hidden combat thingy which allows lucky shots to bypass armor, I dunno.
2010-06-20 09:21   
When the dwarves got hit, what were the exact messages you got? I'm guessing the ones you supplied are paraphrased, since I've never seen "smashing the bone."
2010-06-20 10:10   
(edited on: 2010-06-20 10:11)
If I recall right, it was "shattering" the bone and "tearing" the muscle.

2010-06-20 10:24   
Are you sure it was the hand and not the finger? It would be helpful if you look up the events in gamelog.txt and copy-paste the text so that we're absolutely sure what happened.
2010-06-20 10:37   
Yes, it was the hand. I deleted the old .06 DF folder when I installed .07 (now .08), so the gamelog is unfortunately gone. I'll post here if it happens in my new fort, though.
2010-06-20 12:14   
Even if it's the hand, I really doubt it's a bug for that to happen occasionally. It does seem like "worse material never penetrates good material" in many situations, but if there are situations where it works more realistically, that's probably a good thing.
2016-07-19 06:29   
Mittens are a "cover" layer; they are worn *over* gauntlets. With that in mind, pretty much every serious attack would have penetrated a mitten. Those which then penetrated the gauntlet were only reported penetrating the outermost layer (mitten) per 0003196. Those which were deflected by the gauntlet were reported as such.