Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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0002922Dwarf FortressInit Optionspublic2010-08-01 16:512015-10-07 15:30
dezbro 
Toady One 
normalminorhave not tried
resolvedfixed 
 
0.40.05 
0002922: Population Cap not working
I changed my population cap from 200 to 20 and since hitting the cap I've gotten 3 migrant waves.
0.31.25, migrants
related to 0000486resolved Toady One Fortress wealth calculation includes undiscovered cavern items, causing large migrant waves 
has duplicate 0003921resolved Dwarfu Immigration not obeying population cap 
has duplicate 0004247resolved Logical2u population cap ignored 
has duplicate 0005264resolved Logical2u Population Cap Not Working 
has duplicate 0005638resolved Logical2u Population Cap is Set, but Dwarves Still Migrate to the Fortress 
has duplicate 0000643resolved Dwarfu Migrants show up, even though [POPULATION_CAP:7] is set before embarking on fortress 
has duplicate 0000675closed Footkerchief forced immigration 
has duplicate 0003520resolved Logical2u POPULATION_CAP setting in d_init.txt is not respected by migrants when set from 0-7 
has duplicate 0005019resolved Logical2u [POPULATION_CAP] Not Working 
related to 0007736resolved Toady One Omitting STRICT_POPULATION_CAP from d_init.txt defaults it to 0 
Issue History
2010-08-01 16:51dezbroNew Issue
2010-08-01 18:00Logical2uNote Added: 0011377
2010-08-01 21:45dezbroNote Added: 0011385
2010-10-17 23:03sublightNote Added: 0013401
2010-10-18 00:48AkjoschNote Added: 0013402
2010-11-30 21:31pkmnfrkNote Added: 0014331
2010-11-30 21:32pkmnfrkIssue Monitored: pkmnfrk
2011-02-03 09:01DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0003921
2011-02-04 16:23mrchinchin25Issue Monitored: mrchinchin25
2011-02-04 17:00dravusNote Added: 0014991
2011-03-19 11:47Logical2uRelationship addedhas duplicate 0004247
2011-03-19 12:00red_29ANote Added: 0016370
2011-04-01 06:48kurisukunIssue Monitored: kurisukun
2011-04-01 06:52RhenayaNote Added: 0016932
2011-04-01 06:53kurisukunNote Added: 0016933
2011-04-10 17:18Corona688Note Added: 0017284
2011-04-10 18:25kwielandNote Added: 0017285
2011-04-24 13:47CurunirNote Added: 0017502
2011-04-25 13:41KogutNote Added: 0017509
2011-04-29 13:02LesconradsNote Added: 0017579
2011-04-30 17:45akdNote Added: 0017589
2011-05-03 06:10KonNote Added: 0017607
2011-05-03 19:21KonisforceNote Added: 0017614
2011-05-05 17:15NarosNote Added: 0017641
2011-05-05 22:16Holy MittensNote Added: 0017642
2011-05-06 05:51kwielandNote Added: 0017643
2011-05-07 15:28Corona688Note Added: 0017653
2011-06-01 08:14quintiliusNote Added: 0017912
2011-06-02 10:40NarosIssue Monitored: Naros
2011-06-02 13:20Logical2uNote Added: 0017921
2011-06-02 15:22unre9isteredNote Added: 0017923
2011-06-02 15:22unre9isteredNote Edited: 0017923bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0017923#r6695
2011-06-02 15:29unre9isteredIssue Monitored: unre9istered
2011-06-02 15:33CespinarveNote Added: 0017924
2011-06-04 16:36unre9isteredNote Added: 0017932
2011-06-04 16:38unre9isteredTag Attached: 0.31.25
2011-06-04 16:38unre9isteredTag Attached: migrants
2011-06-05 15:21kwielandNote Added: 0017937
2011-07-17 09:52dree12Note Added: 0018269
2011-08-06 13:43MooseNote Added: 0018441
2011-08-06 13:44MooseNote Edited: 0018441bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018441#r6893
2011-08-07 16:12kwielandNote Added: 0018450
2011-08-10 19:13MooseNote Added: 0018474
2011-08-12 06:28kwielandNote Added: 0018483
2011-08-12 06:29kwielandNote Edited: 0018483bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018483#r6909
2011-08-15 04:09berksdanNote Added: 0018509
2011-08-17 09:04axkibeNote Added: 0018555
2011-08-17 09:05axkibeNote Added: 0018556
2011-08-17 10:22axkibeIssue Monitored: axkibe
2011-08-17 12:35axkibeNote Added: 0018558
2011-08-17 14:03kwielandNote Added: 0018559
2011-08-18 06:27axkibeNote Added: 0018565
2011-08-18 11:01kwielandNote Added: 0018572
2011-08-21 09:24axkibeNote Added: 0018600
2011-11-17 09:42NarosNote Added: 0018995
2012-02-18 09:25Logical2uRelationship addedhas duplicate 0005264
2012-02-18 09:47TiredOlGoatNote Added: 0020046
2012-02-18 10:13FootkerchiefNote Added: 0020054
2012-02-18 15:01TiredOlGoatNote Added: 0020063
2012-03-06 11:45BlahNote Added: 0021182
2012-03-06 15:09kwielandNote Added: 0021189
2012-03-06 15:10kwielandNote Edited: 0021189bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0021189#r7886
2012-03-07 10:04Orkel2Note Added: 0021221
2012-03-13 19:46Logical2uRelationship addedhas duplicate 0005638
2012-03-19 08:10kentoIssue Monitored: kento
2012-03-23 05:01BuglistIssue Monitored: Buglist
2012-04-02 15:11blueocean43Note Added: 0022043
2012-04-02 15:21blueocean43Issue Monitored: blueocean43
2012-04-04 04:19StebIssue Monitored: Steb
2012-04-06 07:13FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0000486
2012-04-12 04:05MoritzNote Added: 0022236
2012-04-12 09:25kwielandNote Edited: 0021189bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0021189#r8276
2012-04-12 12:42arclanceIssue Monitored: arclance
2012-05-05 04:51TiredOlGoatNote Added: 0022433
2012-05-05 04:52TiredOlGoatNote Edited: 0022433bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0022433#r8363
2012-05-12 09:46AggrimIssue Monitored: Aggrim
2012-05-12 21:07RhenayaIssue Monitored: Rhenaya
2012-06-09 05:39jelaw21Note Added: 0022931
2012-06-15 07:37ZaraIssue Monitored: Zara
2012-06-18 04:15SnaakeIssue Monitored: Snaake
2012-06-18 09:49kwielandNote Edited: 0021189bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0021189#r8594
2012-06-18 09:49kwielandNote Edited: 0017937bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0017937#r8596
2012-06-18 16:48DrazinonondaNote Added: 0023050
2012-06-18 16:48DrazinonondaNote Edited: 0023050bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0023050#r8602
2012-06-30 10:33eliotcougarNote Added: 0023131
2012-06-30 10:41eliotcougarNote Edited: 0023131bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0023131#r8640
2012-07-01 04:22ptb_ptbNote Added: 0023133
2012-07-01 06:01ptb_ptbNote Deleted: 0023133
2012-07-04 15:34BleedingblackXDNote Added: 0023152
2012-08-25 02:39TiredOlGoatNote Added: 0023489
2012-08-29 00:05agNote Added: 0023502
2012-08-29 00:19agNote Edited: 0023502bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0023502#r8772
2012-09-08 12:17arclanceIssue End Monitor: arclance
2012-09-08 12:17arclanceIssue Monitored: arclance
2012-12-01 04:50TiredOlGoatNote Added: 0023755
2012-12-01 05:31agNote Added: 0023756
2012-12-01 05:38agNote Edited: 0023756bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0023756#r8875
2012-12-10 23:29TiredOlGoatNote Added: 0023773
2013-05-31 17:43InsanityPreludeNote Added: 0023989
2013-05-31 17:45InsanityPreludeIssue Monitored: InsanityPrelude
2013-06-03 23:23InsanityPreludeNote Edited: 0023989bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0023989#r8941
2013-06-07 18:00InsanityPreludeIssue End Monitor: InsanityPrelude
2013-06-09 15:49JasonMelNote Added: 0023996
2014-03-25 23:55agIssue Monitored: ag
2014-03-26 02:02DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0000643
2014-03-26 02:02DwarfuIssue Monitored: Lemunde
2014-03-26 02:02DwarfuIssue Monitored: archivis
2014-03-26 02:02DwarfuIssue Monitored: Unisol
2014-03-26 02:02DwarfuIssue Monitored: Jack Trades
2014-03-26 02:02DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0000675
2014-03-26 02:03DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0003520
2014-03-26 02:04DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0005019
2014-03-26 02:05DwarfuSticky IssueNo => Yes
2014-03-26 02:05DwarfuAssigned To => Dwarfu
2014-03-26 02:05DwarfuStatusnew => acknowledged
2014-03-26 09:54QuietustNote Added: 0024640
2014-07-11 13:23SirPenguinNote Added: 0025840
2014-07-15 21:40FootkerchiefTag Attached: Fixed in 0.40.01?
2014-07-17 15:51int_uaNote Added: 0026785
2014-07-17 15:51int_uaIssue Monitored: int_ua
2014-07-18 14:35SirPenguinNote Added: 0026903
2014-07-20 06:13cephaloNote Added: 0027006
2014-07-20 06:26SteveTheRedNote Added: 0027008
2014-07-20 20:35lethosorTag Detached: Fixed in 0.40.01?
2014-07-20 21:16SteveTheRedNote Added: 0027100
2014-07-21 03:22lando242Note Added: 0027110
2014-07-24 13:30Toady OneNote Added: 0027447
2014-07-24 13:30Toady OneStatusacknowledged => resolved
2014-07-24 13:30Toady OneFixed in Version => Next Version
2014-07-24 13:30Toady OneResolutionopen => fixed
2014-07-24 13:30Toady OneAssigned ToDwarfu => Toady One
2014-07-24 23:42DwarfuSticky IssueYes => No
2014-08-13 08:42FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0007736
2014-08-25 13:38AggrimIssue End Monitor: Aggrim
2015-10-07 15:30SnaakeIssue End Monitor: Snaake
2016-03-08 02:21StebIssue End Monitor: Steb

Notes
(0011377)
Logical2u   
2010-08-01 18:00   
The cap only takes effect after a Dwarven Caravan arrives and successfully departs from your fortress. Does this explain your situation?
(0011385)
dezbro   
2010-08-01 21:45   
I suppose it does but then I don't think that would constitute this any less of a bug. That doesn't sound logical to me since a hard pop-cap is a performance option and shouldn't be tied in to the realism of a dwarven caravan appearing. Anyway, thanks for the info.
(0013401)
sublight   
2010-10-17 23:03   
I have my cap set to 200, yet I'm still getting migrants when my population is over 220. (ver 0.31.13)
(0013402)
Akjosch   
2010-10-18 00:48   
Version 0.31.13 had general bugs with migrations, which also allowed for guys like "Drunks" and "Master Thieves" to migrate to your fort.

For reference, see the following bugs: 0003241, 0003258, 0003296, 0003254, 0003264 and so on.
(0014331)
pkmnfrk   
2010-11-30 21:31   
I've had my cap set to 30 dwarves since before the creation of my current world. 3 1/2 game-years later, I'm now up to 113 dwarves. Caravan has come and gone multiple times. I even have a barony now :P
(0014991)
dravus   
2011-02-04 17:00   
I have that bug right now

DF 31.18

Cap 100
pop 120
(0016370)
red_29A   
2011-03-19 12:00   
I've never had any trouble with the cap, but in 31.21 it has no effect.
(0016932)
Rhenaya   
2011-04-01 06:52   
this is a really old bug, i remember reporting this way back in 40d in the forums
(0016933)
kurisukun   
2011-04-01 06:53   
DF 31.25

Still having the bug. Have had population cap set to 20 since world gen. it appeared to be working fine for quite some time, Before I had a baby. Now, I figured the baby probably bypassed this cap, but then I received a new migrant wave.

With the number of dwarves reduced to below 20, things appeared to be functioning again, till I ended up with 28 dwarves. Numbers have since fallen to 21 again, and appears to be holding steady. I have had this problem in numerous other fortresses that I can remember, although I possess no metrics.
(0017284)
Corona688   
2011-04-10 17:18   
Still having the bug.

Why is this not considered a major bug? Unless you start murdering dwarves wholesale it makes the game unplayable past year two
(0017285)
kwieland   
2011-04-10 18:25   
@Corona688 Because most don't have the bug? I've played several (10+) and have yet to reproduce it.
(0017502)
Curunir   
2011-04-24 13:47   
31.25, I have this issue.

Population cap is set at 200, King brought the population up to 203, and two more waves of immigrants have occurred after that, bringing my population to 218.
(0017509)
Kogut   
2011-04-25 13:41   
31.25 - confirmed

"The cap only takes effect after a Dwarven Caravan arrives and successfully departs from your fortress."

and

"I suppose it does but then I don't think that would constitute this any less of a bug. That doesn't sound logical to me since a hard pop-cap is a performance option and shouldn't be tied in to the realism of a dwarven caravan appearing. Anyway, thanks for the info."
(0017579)
Lesconrads   
2011-04-29 13:02   
31.25 ; this is a NEW bug - or at least, it hasnt happened for me yet.

Its now year 2 or 3, dwarfs came and left, and my population increases way beyond the limit. I got at least 2 migrant waves, when I already was BEYOND the limit - so not even a big wave when I was close to the limit.
This is an annoying bug indeed.

Further suggestions for testing?
(0017589)
akd   
2011-04-30 17:45   
Definitely can reproduce. It's been a while but I seem to recall the first migration will have at most (cap - current) migrants, potentially bringing it up to the cap, and then future seasons will have the same max amount until it decides no more migrants are allowed.

It's not just a performance option, but a difficulty option as well.
(0017607)
Kon   
2011-05-03 06:10   
Cap has been working for me if I don't count children and babies. (31.25)
(0017614)
Konisforce   
2011-05-03 19:21   
31.25. Cap is definitely NOT working. Liaison has come and gone, just had my 2nd migrant wave over my cap.
(0017641)
Naros   
2011-05-05 17:15   
Same for me. I had the cap set at 30.

One wave took me to exactly 30 ... then an other to 38, and then one to 50 before immigration ceased.
(0017642)
Holy Mittens   
2011-05-05 22:16   
I too have had this issue. Liaison has come and left twice already with the population cap set at 30 and I'm still getting migrants despite being at 48 now.
(0017643)
kwieland   
2011-05-06 05:51   
@Holy Mittens - see if they come next year. There is some lag between the two events. If you really want 30, set your cap at 7 or something like that. You'll end up with 30.
(0017653)
Corona688   
2011-05-07 15:28   
v31.25, population cap 30, population 78, and the migrants just keep coming...
(0017912)
quintilius   
2011-06-01 08:14   
31.25, popcap at 1 (with 0 kids) playing hermit challenge... 0 exported wealth...
i have a room with 438 engraved slabs...
do i have to talk to the dwarven caravan to have it work - because i didnt...
(0017921)
Logical2u   
2011-06-02 13:20   
Quintilius, please see my very first note on this issue...
"The cap only takes effect after a Dwarven Caravan arrives and successfully departs from your fortress. Does this explain your situation?"
Note that this is only the best explanation of previous game behaviour and not necessarily an accurate depiction of the current game. If you're not talking to the dwarven caravan at all then it starts to sound like it's expected in your case.

Immigrants do not only check exported wealth, they also check total fortress wealth - so your 438 engraved slabs are rich enough to draw them in possibly.
(0017923)
unre9istered   
2011-06-02 15:22   
I'm having this problem as well. I had my population set to 50. When I noticed I was at 53 (though immigration not child birth) I upped it to 70, hoping it would take this time. Now (after about a year and a visit from the dwarven merchants) I'm up to 80 with my most recent migrant wave.
I wouldn't care but those worthless immigrants just stand around doing nothing all the time because I have no huge projects to work on. I've ~ 40 idle dwarves and no idle shops that I can find. My FPS is crashing and I'm tire of building furniture for these leeches.
I'm abandoning that fortress. I hope the cap takes on my next game.

(0017924)
Cespinarve   
2011-06-02 15:33   
I've never once had the pop cap work, migrant waves just kept coming and coming.
(0017932)
unre9istered   
2011-06-04 16:36   
Is this problem universal for this version or are there some people who have the pop. cap work?
I've officially given up on dwarf fortress until I find a way to make the cap work again.
(0017937)
kwieland   
2011-06-05 15:21   
(edited on: 2012-06-18 09:49)
I cannot reproduce this bug. Specifically, the population cap has always worked.

 I agree that limiting immigration is a hardware limit. As such
1. immigration shouldn't depend on the caravan
2. immigration shouldn't depend on fortress or exported wealth
3. immigration shouldn't be tied to events in game
4. you should be able to turn immigration off

(I can't complain since 0.31 DF on my win2k machine doesn't work.)

To try to reproduce this bug, I set [POPULATION_CAP:20] in the d_init.txt file, then generated a world. I haven't touched the d_init.txt file since. I embarked and the first year I had three immigration waves, bringing my total to 22 (slightly over the cap). I played an additional year and no more immigrants arrived. Some have suggested that it was triggered by wealth, I had legendary herbalists with legendary cooks booze cooking, so my wealth was over 200k, so I don't think it is a wealth issue. I didn't "dig in", but I doubt that would make a difference.

Show me how to reproduce the bug, please?

(0018269)
dree12   
2011-07-17 09:52   
This in my opinion is a suggestion, as I believe the popcap is intended to work this way. Therefore, I think the following should be implemented:
[POPULATION_CAP:0] this is a hard limit on births and immigration
[IMMIGRATION_LIMIT:200] default for an in-game option to set the immigration limit, behaves like current POPULATION_CAP
(0018441)
Moose   
2011-08-06 13:43   
(edited on: 2011-08-06 13:44)
I am 90% certain that this issue is with the region or world or whatever word you want to use for it. I'm not quite done testing but I have not experienced this bug at any point in the past, but after generating a region, every fortress in which I had a chance to notice the bug on that region has had it. The two modifications I made to the default generation parameters of that world were an unusually long gen time (1050 years) and slightly increased embark points. My money is on the embark points thing being the issue, but I may have modified another minor parameter. Either way this at least gives us a place to begin looking. I will post again when I finish confirming that this is region specific (I'm running through a few forts on another region and seeing if it has the bug). If anyone would like to help test, I would recommend trying a long gen world with no other changes, then a world with increased embark points, and then both, and see if any of them trigger the bug.

(0018450)
kwieland   
2011-08-07 16:12   
Good idea. With a default world I could not reproduce this issue. My posts above were for default world with a 3x3 embark. Large embark/long gen times sounds interesting. Can you post world parameters that cause this bug? or a save?
(0018474)
Moose   
2011-08-10 19:13   
Been pretty busy, I'll upload the save though since I don't remember the specific parameters aside from the big two I changed. What hosting service is usually used here?
(0018483)
kwieland   
2011-08-12 06:28   
(edited on: 2011-08-12 06:29)
This one: http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^] you'll need a free account to upload.

(0018509)
berksdan   
2011-08-15 04:09   
Started a new fortress yesterday. Set a population cap of 75. My fortress reached this cap half way through year 2 and remained at 75 until year 4. I continued to generate wealth and import and export goods via elven, dwarven and human caravans, so, under normal circumstances, subsequent migration waves should have arrived.

While creating a magma pump, a pet sprung a leak and one of my dwarves died, taking my population down to 74. During the next season, a new migration wave arrived, pushing my population up to 83. Since then I have had another two, pushing up to 89 and then 101.
(0018555)
axkibe   
2011-08-17 09:04   
I just had this bug. 51 Adults, 1 baby. And a new waves comes. 2 dwarfen Caravans already came. Yes I also had 4 deaths during an unlucky ambush. I uploaded the savegame (actually the whole DF folder, so with all configs), a few seconds after resuming it, a new wave will come.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4852 [^]

I'll try to play with that one more wave, if another comes, its a game breaker for me, since I don't want 8 FPS with a 200 fort, its not fun.
(0018556)
axkibe   
2011-08-17 09:05   
BTW: Neither I want to massacre dwarves just to be under the cap, its not my style of gaming.
(0018558)
axkibe   
2011-08-17 12:35   
I had a death and anoter 2 come bringing me up 52 (excluding 2 kids, including it are 54) But now the waves seem to have stopped.
(0018559)
kwieland   
2011-08-17 14:03   
axkibe, what is your cap set to? 50?
(0018565)
axkibe   
2011-08-18 06:27   
yes
(0018572)
kwieland   
2011-08-18 11:01   
So in your case axkibe, the population cap is working. @berksdan, did your population ever level off, or did you abandon?
(0018600)
axkibe   
2011-08-21 09:24   
It seems the cap is only effective at some point of the year, so during the year you started with less than the cap, you keep getting immigrants bringing you quite somewhat over it.
(0018995)
Naros   
2011-11-17 09:42   
I have an other game in a different world, cap set at 30, and now I have 54 dwarves and nobles making mandates and such that I Do Not Want. :/
(0020046)
TiredOlGoat   
2012-02-18 09:47   
Hello, I've been redirected here from my ticket - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5264 [^] - and while I realize that centralization is good for the purposes of solving bugs, it is very clear that this is an old issue and it is not in any way resolved. Looking over the posts above you can clearly see several contradictory reports, all of which are true for the posters, I'm sure.

For one thing, the population cap does not seem to recheck after the Dwarven caravan; the liasion can come and go for years without any noticeable change in acceptance of the population cap. As an example - I set my cap to 25 before worldgen. Pre the liasion arriving, I had 22 from starting and restarting until my numbers were close so that the last wave of immigration would push me nicely over into safety. My total population shot up to thirty-one, a pretty harsh drain on fps, but manageable. However - they continued to keep arriving. The population does not level off or stop arriving.

This has been around since 2010. Please upgrade it from a minor issue.
(0020054)
Footkerchief   
2012-02-18 10:13   
The severity and priority fields aren't actually relevant to how we prioritize issues on the tracker. Don't worry about them. But yes, this is an old bug and hopefully it'll get addressed once Toady has worked through the newly introduced bugs.
(0020063)
TiredOlGoat   
2012-02-18 15:01   
Thanks - I know that there's a lot to take care of and I don't want to repeat what other people have said better than I, haha!... But it really does mean a lot to know that it's being looked at.
(0021182)
Blah   
2012-03-06 11:45   
In 0.34.05 this bug is still present.
(0021189)
kwieland   
2012-03-06 15:09   
(edited on: 2012-06-18 09:49)
Foot - it seems that this is really two issues related to the immigration "limit".

1. For older computer systems, having no immigration is a necessity. Does the game respect the limit? Yes/no. It seems no, that you'll always get one to three waves of migrants. Why not respect the no imigrants?

2. The immigration "limit" for established settlements isn't being honored. Or it relates to when the caravan comes and goes, liason, or other things. Since these are FPS issues, not gameplay issues, it seems pretty major for those who experience them.

If the population dips below the limit, another wave will be spawned. Perhaps this can be turned off? Once you've hit your limit, you're on your own?

I have not been able to reproduce the second bug (though I've tried), but perhaps others can?

(0021221)
Orkel2   
2012-03-07 10:04   
Happening to me now. I've had the pop cap set to 100 + child cap set to 20 since the beginning of the fort, and I just got a migrant wave that put me to 133 total population - that is, 13 dwarves more than my pop cap settings allow.
(0022043)
blueocean43   
2012-04-02 15:11   
This issue is still occurring in 0.34.07. Cap set to 20, now up to 58 dwarfs.
(0022236)
Moritz   
2012-04-12 04:05   
this is certainly a major problem
(0022433)
TiredOlGoat   
2012-05-05 04:51   
(edited on: 2012-05-05 04:52)
Hey, just checking up. Since Blueoceandeltalambda has said that this still is happening, is there any way/mod that sets a hard cap on migration/onscreen population? Bringing the FPS to a crawl within the first summer is... Well, depressing to say the least.

(0022931)
jelaw21   
2012-06-09 05:39   
Just reading through as I am having the same problem, currently with 178 dwarfs a pop cap of 80 and FPS at 15!!!. Here is what I am noticing,

There is a conflict between pop cap, immigration and birth rate. Pop Cap works, so long as nothing happens to extend beyond the cap. For example, at one point in my fort I had 50 dwarfs for a year, but my birthrate was set to 10. I had three babies pulling pop to 53, then got hit with migration waves which put me to 72. Once an event has occured to exceed pop cap, then pop cap is ignored.

I had this happen with a death as well. I increased my pop cap to 80. Had 80 dwarfs for about a year, 2 got killed, which signaled for a migration. I received 3 on that migration wave, which put me over my cap, and thus many more waves. Suggestions: set birth ratio to 0. Its not an even fix as you still have the deaths to deal with.
(0023050)
Drazinononda   
2012-06-18 16:48   
Had a similar situation to what jelaw just described on my current fort on 34.11. Cap at 100, and a particular migration wave brought me up to that. Went through a season or two (don't remember exactly) at 100, and then a dwarf gave birth, and the next season another wave of migrants showed up.

(0023131)
eliotcougar   
2012-06-30 10:33   
(edited on: 2012-06-30 10:41)
Happened to me last time in a 34.11... Fortress got 2 waves for a while and reached the cap at 30... Then I got no immigrants for a while until Dwarves started to give births... As soon as I reached ~ 35-37 dwarves a sudden immigration wave of 14 dwarves has arrived...
PS: Then FUN came and fortress fell... :)

(0023152)
BleedingblackXD   
2012-07-04 15:34   
I have always used the Phoebus graphics kit, and have experienced this problem since i first started to play. Downloaded the LNP 34.11 yesterday and set my pop cap to 50, and forgot to install my graphics. Went back to install the graphics and realized it reset all my settings (obviously did something to some of DF's files). Speculating whether or not this could be a glitch from a third party addon? Since some people cannot reproduce the problem perhaps they are not using any graphics packs/other third party addons that effect game files? Or maybe its a problem with Phoebus? I will be testing out some ideas today.
(0023489)
TiredOlGoat   
2012-08-25 02:39   
I don't mean to detract from the other issues listed above, but my report had no graphics packs attached, and bot the value for immigrants set to 25 and the cap for children at 0/0. Meaning no children 'pushed' me over the cap, and thus I would like to unmerge my report from this thread if it is believed the cause is related to tileset behaviors.
(0023502)
ag   
2012-08-29 00:05   
(edited on: 2012-08-29 00:19)
What is actually communicated to the home civ by caravan is not the population cap - it is the current population number. So, once you drop below the cap and it is communicated, you will get migrants until the number is updated again.

I think that migrants should be immediately added to the numbers in the civ, because, after all, they should know how many they have sent. In this way, you'll have to wait for the caravan to get more migrants, not to get them to stop.

Edit: Yeah, and during the first two special waves the number in the civ is 0, so the only way to stop them is to set the cap to 0 too.

(0023755)
TiredOlGoat   
2012-12-01 04:50   
Why are the first waves forced upon the player/not dependent on immigration cap? I am very confused by that design decision, though it would be a measure of hope if it means that by setting all immigration integers to 0 for the first waves and then adjusting upward until I tap out my FPS, I can get a working fortress for the first time in some time. Thank you for the update - it is much appreciated.
(0023756)
ag   
2012-12-01 05:31   
(edited on: 2012-12-01 05:38)
The code evidently tries to simulate information flow between your fort and home civ, which is a valid goal. The problem is that as simulated the home civ apparently has nobody who can do arithmetics, because they definitely should know that migrants have set out for your fort, but don't add them to your expected population count. Also, during the first waves that data simply doesn't exist yet - it is created when the first caravan arrives.

Basically, either popcap should be considered a purely performance feature and checked against the true population number, or the civ should account for migrants so that they err on the side of assuming higher population (in case of deaths).

(0023773)
TiredOlGoat   
2012-12-10 23:29   
That would be fantastic - and true to your prior suggestion, I set my birth AND population cap to zero - not seven, or ten, zero - and seem to have not experienced migrant waves yet. I'm really hoping this works as I've missed playing this game immensely. =)
(0023989)
InsanityPrelude   
2013-05-31 17:43   
(edited on: 2013-06-03 23:23)
In 34.11, I'm still getting loads of births even though I'm over the population cap (default caps, population of 234 at the status screen.) I've also gotten at least one migrant wave since hitting the cap.

I'm managing a respectable 60 FPS, but it's irritating to see it seemingly ignoring my settings like this.

Edit: Never mind. It didn't occur to me that the total shown on the status screen included animals; I wasn't actually over the cap.

(0023996)
JasonMel   
2013-06-09 15:49   
In 0.34.11, I just got a migrant wave, even though I set the cap to 7 before playing.

"Basically, either popcap should be considered a purely performance feature and checked against the true population number, or the civ should account for migrants so that they err on the side of assuming higher population (in case of deaths)."

Agreed, and I think the reason people expect it to be an inviolable performance feature is because it's implemented as an init.txt option. If it were settable via some in-game mechanic, exceeding the cap by a few waves would probably be more acceptable -- the less meta, the more acceptable. Ideally, if the cap mechanic is implemented through liaison communication, then the desired cap should be part of the conversation you have with the liaison, who should tell you, in an explicit disclaimer, that you may get migrants until word spreads that you've reached your cap.
(0024640)
Quietust   
2014-03-26 09:54   
"I didn't 'dig in', but I doubt that would make a difference." -- kwieland

From analysis I've done on the migrant code (both in 0.23 and 0.34), "digging in" does have an effect on how many migrants you can get - the game counts subterranean walkable non-feature tiles, and that count is divided by various numbers to determine how many migrants of each profession can arrive (in addition to the variety of jobs you've performed). Of course, I'm not sure if that logic is still fully respected given that it always tries to use historical migrants...
(0025840)
SirPenguin   
2014-07-11 13:23   
I'm happy to report that as of 40.1, this appears fixed. Maybe others could verify?

Steps used:

1. Change pop cap from 200 to 30
2. Started brand new fort, ensuring that enough tiles were mined and wealth generated throughout the year
3. Population hit mid-20s by the end of the year
4. A Spring migration wave brought us to 30 exactly
5. No migrants in the summer
6. In the early fall I purposefully killed 5 dwarves. A child was also born
7. In the late fall we received another migrant wave, bringing the total up to 31 (30 migrants + 1 fortress born)
8. Played until the following summer without any deaths. No new migrants came
(0026785)
int_ua   
2014-07-17 15:51   
Not fixed for me.
I still have migrant waves right after dwarven caravan in 0.40.03
Cap 100, just got second wave after reaching it, before this wave I had 116 dwarves already.
(0026903)
SirPenguin   
2014-07-18 14:35   
I'll do some testing later this weekend to nail this one down. In previous versions, my test would fail - you were almost guaranteed to have 0000055:0000040 dwarves by the start of year 3, even if you have a 30 dwarf cap
(0027006)
cephalo   
2014-07-20 06:13   
I am seeing this bug in 40.03. My cap is 60, and I've gotten many small migrant waves since exceeding the cap.
(0027008)
SteveTheRed   
2014-07-20 06:26   
Still broken in 40.3. I want my cap to be 7 so as to exclude all migrants (trying stupid dwarf challenges), and yet still they come.
(0027100)
SteveTheRed   
2014-07-20 21:16   
0.40.4, pop cap set to 0, and still getting migrants.
(0027110)
lando242   
2014-07-21 03:22   
Right, it hasn't been fixed yet. You're still gonna get the problem until Toady fixes it. No need to add a comment just to say it hasn't been fixed. Some bugs are going to be, and have been, around a long time.
(0027447)
Toady One   
2014-07-24 13:30   
I've tried to make this a little more useful, and it should control migrant waves now, to the point of preventing families that are too large from coming and also stopping generated families from bringing children and so on. Monarch arrival can still break the cap, but that should be an isolated event. I also added another cap that will stop fort births from violating the cap, and set the defaults to 200/220.