Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0003453Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Noblespublic2010-10-22 07:522012-11-27 18:20
ReporterQuietust 
Assigned ToToady One 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
StatusresolvedResolutionfixed 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.31.16 
Target VersionFixed in Version0.34.06 
Summary0003453: Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Tax Collector
DescriptionThe Dungeon Master, Tax Collector, and Hammerer are all marked as being appointed by the Baron/Count/Duke; however, even when the fortress has a Baron/Count/Duke, the above 3 nobles cannot be appointed, nor do they ever appear to arrive as migrants (as they did in 0.28.181.40d and earlier). As a result, exotic animals cannot be tamed, the economy never activates, and particularly heinous crimes are never explicitly punished by execution (except by the hands of an armed and/or overly strong Captain of the Guard).
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information
TagsNo tags attached.
Relationships
related to 0000519resolved Toady One Liaison doesn't offer baron/count/duke options unless meeting occurs after caravan leaves 
related to 0002036resolved Dwarfu Dungeon Master doesn't allow taming/training of exotic pets/mounts 
has duplicate 0003860resolved Dwarfu Dungeon master never comes 
Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2010-10-22 07:52QuietustNew Issue
2010-10-22 08:03RhenayaNote Added: 0013466
2010-10-22 08:21Logical2uRelationship addedrelated to 0000519
2010-10-22 09:26QuietustNote Added: 0013469
2010-10-22 09:27QuietustNote Edited: 0013469bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0013469#r5214
2010-10-22 09:31QuietustNote Edited: 0013469bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0013469#r5215
2010-10-22 09:42Hieronymous AlloyIssue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2010-10-22 10:22BarbarossaIssue Monitored: Barbarossa
2010-10-22 11:31Logical2uNote Added: 0013471
2010-10-22 11:32Logical2uNote Edited: 0013471bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0013471#r5217
2010-10-22 11:32Logical2uRelationship addedrelated to 0002036
2010-11-05 09:22endrinIssue Monitored: endrin
2010-11-17 00:07Khym ChanurIssue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-12-13 11:32EtheldredaIssue Monitored: Etheldreda
2010-12-31 20:16DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0003860
2011-01-13 22:19nb4estIssue Monitored: nb4est
2011-02-18 06:23xrogaanIssue Monitored: xrogaan
2011-02-24 14:52GlacialIssue Monitored: Glacial
2011-03-02 07:42FootkerchiefSummaryBaron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles => Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Dungeon Master
2011-03-06 15:59AnotherIssue Monitored: Another
2011-03-13 12:50throwerofstonesIssue Monitored: throwerofstones
2011-03-20 14:17Malibu StaceyIssue Monitored: Malibu Stacey
2011-03-25 11:35Orkel2Note Added: 0016582
2011-03-28 12:09UllallullooIssue Monitored: Ullallulloo
2011-03-28 14:07deathc4Note Added: 0016735
2011-03-28 14:27QuietustNote Added: 0016737
2011-03-28 14:35FootkerchiefSticky IssueNo => Yes
2011-04-03 15:23RhenayaIssue Monitored: Rhenaya
2011-04-05 11:35DekonIssue Monitored: Dekon
2011-04-08 22:37deathc4Issue Monitored: deathc4
2011-04-09 00:23KogutNote Added: 0017217
2011-04-30 17:50RayanthNote Added: 0017590
2011-05-30 16:14FthagenNote Added: 0017905
2011-07-09 18:01BeeskeeIssue Monitored: Beeskee
2011-07-22 17:09VheridIssue Monitored: Vherid
2011-08-20 09:06FrogwarriorNote Added: 0018582
2011-08-20 09:49Knight OtuNote Added: 0018583
2011-08-20 10:45Knight OtuNote Edited: 0018583bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018583#r6953
2011-08-20 10:50Knight OtuNote Edited: 0018583bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018583#r6954
2011-08-20 11:04danarisNote Added: 0018584
2011-08-20 11:08QuietustNote Added: 0018585
2011-08-20 11:16Knight OtuNote Added: 0018586
2011-09-02 10:23MorrolanIssue Monitored: Morrolan
2011-09-02 12:11TelarinIssue Monitored: Telarin
2011-11-06 07:18Igfig2Note Added: 0018957
2011-11-10 02:27DwarfuNote Added: 0018971
2012-01-06 17:44MorlarkIssue Monitored: Morlark
2012-02-26 11:46BuglistIssue Monitored: Buglist
2012-03-07 08:10DwarfuNote Added: 0021218
2012-03-07 08:13DwarfuSummaryBaron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Dungeon Master => Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Tax Collector
2012-03-11 07:22Toady OneNote Added: 0021362
2012-03-11 07:22Toady OneStatusnew => resolved
2012-03-11 07:22Toady OneFixed in Version => Next Version
2012-03-11 07:22Toady OneResolutionopen => fixed
2012-03-11 07:22Toady OneAssigned To => Toady One
2012-03-11 09:49DwarfuSticky IssueYes => No
2012-03-12 07:39TelarinIssue End Monitor: Telarin
2012-03-13 04:35BuglistIssue End Monitor: Buglist
2012-03-19 17:29VheridIssue End Monitor: Vherid
2012-03-27 09:24RhenayaIssue End Monitor: Rhenaya
2012-05-28 17:52MorrolanIssue End Monitor: Morrolan
2012-06-24 18:09MorlarkIssue End Monitor: Morlark
2012-07-05 06:45Malibu StaceyIssue End Monitor: Malibu Stacey
2012-11-27 18:20nb4estIssue End Monitor: nb4est

Notes
(0013466)
Rhenaya   
2010-10-22 08:03   
normally you should get a diplomat visiting your fort and you can choose one of your own to make him baron (no migrated nobles anymore)

however, that dungeonmaster etc are still missing, is a known bug
(0013469)
Quietust   
2010-10-22 09:26   
(edited on: 2010-10-22 09:31)
Rhenaya: I'm not talking about getting the Baron itself (and thus this is completely unrelated to 0000519) - I'm talking how about after you have a Baron (or Count or Duke), you cannot appoint nobles which are specified as being appointed by the Baron (or Count or Duke).

The "dungeonmaster etc are still missing" is exactly what I'm reporting here - while it may be a "known bug", it was never actually reported on this bug tracker until now (seemingly, every report has been either on the wiki or in the forums).
(0013471)
Logical2u   
2010-10-22 11:31   
(edited on: 2010-10-22 11:32)
It's been previously reported that the dungeon master isn't missing, it's just broken. The fact that barons can't appoint them is a bug, which is probably related to the fact that liaisons resulting in barons are kind of broken, and it used to be a liaison sort of thing that resulted in these fellows showing up.
(0016582)
Orkel2   
2011-03-25 11:35   
Still in .22, hope it's fixed soon.
(0016735)
deathc4   
2011-03-28 14:07   
Dont wanna play until the noble stuff is fixed....=(

FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!
(0016737)
Quietust   
2011-03-28 14:27   
deathc4: I'm not sure how that sort of comment is supposed to help...
(0017217)
Kogut   
2011-04-09 00:23   
still in .25
(0017590)
Rayanth   
2011-04-30 17:50   
I believe this issue is with the Baron, not the Dungeon Master.

-- mod the entity_default raw file, changing the Dungeon master entry to be appointed by mayor and expedition leader instead of baron/count/duke
-- generate a new world
-- embark
-- dungeon master is appointable immediately after embark, by expedition leader.

So it's not that the game is refusing to allow dungeon masters to be appointed... it seems more like it's not recognizing baron/duke/count as able to appoint them. Further testing, by creating a new position appointed by Baron (in a new world) and seeing if they are appointable, might shed more insight.
(0017905)
Fthagen   
2011-05-30 16:14   
I can confirm that Rayanth's method functions.

I made the Dungeon Master, the Hammerer and the Tax Collector appointed by the mayor. As soon as a mayor got elected, I was able to appoint them, while I was unable to do so in an un-modded game.

I am playing in version .25, and I generated the world after I made the fix.
(0018582)
Frogwarrior   
2011-08-20 09:06   
If I had to guess, I'd say that the game doesn't allow you to appoint nobles who are appointed by nobles who are THEMSELVES appointed. Meaning because the Monarch appoints the Baron/Count/Duke, the B/C/D cannot appoint anyone.

Best way to test this would, I think, make a position appointed by the expedition leader and another position appointed by that.
(0018583)
Knight Otu   
2011-08-20 09:49   
(edited on: 2011-08-20 10:50)
That kind of position already exists - the expedition leader appoints militia commanders, who then appoints militia captains. Since that works, it can't be that appointed positions can't appoint others.

Edit - as a different method from Rayath's, I made the *baron* etc appointable by the expedition leader and mayor (which kind of bugged out as I could appoint all of them right from the start), and I was able to appoint the Dungeon Master and co once I ennobled a dwarf. Edit edit - which leads me to believe that the absence of the king from the settlement is the culprit, and the lack of an appointing position translates downwards - the baron may think that since the position that appointed him isn't there, he has no authority to do any appointing himself.
(0018584)
danaris   
2011-08-20 11:04   
Knight Otu and Fthagen:

Were you then able to tame exotics with the Dungeon Master, once he was appointed?

~ TGC
(0018585)
Quietust   
2011-08-20 11:08   
Knight Otu: unfortunately, the arrival of the King at your fortress does not cause this problem to go away - I've got a 0.31.15 fortress (running in 0.31.25) where both the King and Duke are present, but I cannot appoint any other positions.
(0018586)
Knight Otu   
2011-08-20 11:16   
Thanks, Quietust. So there are still other factors that work against the appointing.

danaris, I didn't even try that. Others have tested similar fixes and didn't find them to work.
(0018957)
Igfig2   
2011-11-06 07:18   
Just curious: do champions still work correctly? Champions are appointed by the baron/count/duke, after all. The only obvious differences I can see between champions and the problematic positions are that champions don't have SLEEP_PRETENSION or room requirements.

Also, what about generals? There's only one of them per civilization, but can you assign a new one if the old one dies?
(0018971)
Dwarfu   
2011-11-10 02:27   
FYI

The Hammerer position has been rewritten into a new framework to function as an appointed noble from the beginning, so that portion of this bug report won't be fixed as it stood at the time.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-11-09 [^]
(0021218)
Dwarfu   
2012-03-07 08:10   
The Dungeon Master position is out and the taming framework is being rewritten, so that portion of this report is resolved.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-06-30 [^]

That only leaves the Tax Collector.
(0021362)
Toady One   
2012-03-11 07:22   
The tax collector is nuked with the DM, and I'm not sure where that's going to go in the future, so it's more of an unfinished feature. However, there was a definite bug with baron appointments, and that has been resolved now. When the baron arrives, you'll be able to appoint a champion as before (if it ever worked in any version...).