Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0000751Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Jobs, Militarypublic2010-04-07 16:292010-10-14 08:00
Reporterderigo 
Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityhave not tried
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.31.01 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0000751: 'Minimum' squad requirements functions as 'Exact'
DescriptionMy military dwarf were starving/dying of thirst while training, so as http://magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Military_F.A.Q. [^] recommends, I lowered the minumum required dwarves to the task.

So let's say there are 3 dwarves in the squad, setting the job to "Training, minimum 2" is supposed to relax the requirements on training so that if once of the dwarves is hungry, he can go eat, drink or whatever. By removing other civilian tasks from their active list, they should still go train when they have nothing else they need to do.

However, setting a squad of 3 to "minimum 2" will cause 2 of the dwarves in the squad to activate and attempt to train, while the third stands around in the metting room idle. When one of the training dwarves gets exhausted, he goes to bed, and the idle dwarf activates and goes to train. So there are always exactly 2 dwarves training. After the exhausted dwarf has slept, he'll usually eat and drink, but then sit idle in the meeting area until one of the other dwarves gets exhausted and goes to bed.

Also, if the exhausted dwarf was leading a demonstration, the other dwarf that didn't go to bed will sit there 'Waiting for demonstration', while the newly activated dwarf will come in and do some other training activity, such as 'Individual Combat drill.' The waiting dwarf will now effectively stay idle, "waiting for demonstration" until he gets exhausted and goes to bed.

All in all, not a whole lot of actual training gets done.

The only workable training regime i've found is to have alternating months where the squad is completely idle, so they don't starve themselves to death. But again, they waste a lot of time being idle, and there's no guarantee they'll show up to training at the beginning of the month well rested.
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information
TagsMilitary, minimum, orders, squad
Relationships
child of 0000428acknowledged Toady One Dwarves refuse to train, and other training weirdness 
Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2010-04-07 16:29derigoNew Issue
2010-04-07 16:40derigoNote Added: 0001883
2010-04-08 11:10derigoTag Attached: Military
2010-04-08 11:10derigoTag Attached: orders
2010-04-08 11:10derigoTag Attached: squad
2010-04-08 11:10derigoTag Attached: minimum
2010-04-08 11:44DroneNote Added: 0002109
2010-04-08 11:52Draco18sNote Added: 0002113
2010-04-08 13:36JusticeIssue Monitored: Justice
2010-04-09 15:12FootkerchiefRelationship addedchild of 0000428
2010-04-21 13:59ZombieNote Added: 0004501
2010-07-21 16:30alexleonIssue Monitored: alexleon
2010-07-25 15:12SfonIssue Monitored: Sfon
2010-09-18 17:39monk12Note Added: 0012802
2010-10-13 21:21StyledatolNote Added: 0013356
2010-10-13 21:21StyledatolNote Deleted: 0013356
2010-10-14 06:20kwielandNote Added: 0013364
2010-10-14 08:00Khym ChanurIssue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2018-04-13 12:38HuntthetrollIssue Monitored: Huntthetroll

Notes
(0001883)
derigo   
2010-04-07 16:40   
forgot to add reproduction steps:

1) Define a squad of 3 dwarves
2) Define a barracks for them to train at
3) Desable all jobs for the squad dwarves
4) Set training orders to "Train, 2 Minimum"
5) watch their behavior.
(0002109)
Drone   
2010-04-08 11:44   
I was under the impression that dwarves wouldn't automatically train now and instead would decide to train if they had the self-discipline to go and do it. so perhaps you just have incredibly lazy dwarves?
(0002113)
Draco18s   
2010-04-08 11:52   
No, I see this behavior as well.
(0004501)
Zombie   
2010-04-21 13:59   
If telling my dwarves to train results in them being too lazy to train, then what is the point of drafting them at all? It seems more like bug activity, seeing as this function of self-discipline is not evident in any other tasks. If I have hauling that needs to be done and I have a dwarf that is lazy, they still regularly take up hauling tasks.

I can also vouch for this. My dwarves do not train often at all and, when they do, it's usually "individual" training.
(0012802)
monk12   
2010-09-18 17:39   
I believe the self discipline thing means that if a squad has no active orders, then they'll go do individual combat drills on their off time, whereas lazy dwarves just sit around. Actually assigning a squad to train should cause the squad to train regardless of personality.
(0013364)
kwieland   
2010-10-14 06:20   
I have found that:
1. forming a squad of 10 dwarfs,
2. with an inactive training schedule
3. with only a crossbow weapon assigned
4. and bolts in the ammunitions setting assigned to the squad (500, to be on the safe side)
5. and several defined archery targets with the squad assigned to train at

will result in Professional marksdwarfs in about 2 years time. This is with the dwarfs actively doing other jobs, and training when they want to. I think the discipline comes in for non-active dwarfs. Say in a squad like above, a dwarf that has self discipline would train instead of "idle". Some obviously are more busy (miners) and so they train less, too.

My next item of business is to test the melee weapon training. Previously inactive training didn't work very well. When set to an active training schedule, I have seen what you suggest, that the minimum is actually the exact number.