0004676: Upgraded fort from 0.31.18, no more surface plant growth

(0017878)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-05-28 12:19

In 31.19 Toady introduced the new grazing mechanics which saw grass and plant growth changed around a lot to accompany that. As such I suspect that the absence of grass is entirely expected in this case.

I'd also hazard that because you so drastically terraformed your biome that it's not going to spawn saplings or shrubs.

It's not clear from your report if the roads are still there.

Tempted to mark this as 'no change required'.

(0017879)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-05-28 12:34
edited on: 2011-05-28 12:38

For the record, I did the exact same "cut down every tree, gather every shrub, remove all grass" procedure early in the history of the fortress and everything grew back eventually - I not only have zero grass but also zero shrubs and zero saplings. Were it not for the underground caverns (which seem to have been unaffected by this), all of my woodcutters and herbalists would be permanently unemployed.

Also, dirt roads disappear the instant they are "built", just as they always have.

(0017880)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-05-28 12:36

Yeah but by 'early in the history of the fortress' I presume you mean 'While still playing 31.18' right?

(0017881)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-05-28 12:37

Yes, and I don't see how that makes this any less of a bug.

(0017882)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-05-28 13:55

As I said, in 31.19 the grass system was changed. So old maps probably aren't compatible with the new grass.

(0017883)
kwieland (reporter)
2011-05-28 13:58

Are surface plants affected by mining out "nearby" tiles, you know, the 2-tile radius?

(0017884)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-05-28 14:15
edited on: 2011-05-28 14:32

They are, but I haven't mined out the soil underneath the locations where trees/shrubs are now failing to grow.

For reference, this is what my fortress used to look like (and still does, minus the lack of surface plants):
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-9932-releasetreaty [^]

(0017886)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-05-28 16:19

So the grass thing might be expected but I guess you're saying the trees/shrub are a bug? I might guess that trees/shrubs have to grow on grass which would neatly inter-relate all three.

(0017888)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-05-28 19:11
edited on: 2011-05-28 19:23

I just wrote a DFHack tool to replenish all of the surface grass in my embark region, and once I ran it I immediately noticed shrubs and saplings appearing - thus, it looks like the lack of plants is a side effect of the lack of grass.

(0017889)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-05-28 20:20

I wonder if this grass/sapling relationship is part of 31.18, part of the biome, or a regular part of the game. The Wiki indicates that saplings can spawn anywhere, which makes sense to me since you can get cactii for wood in the desert.

(0017891)
jaxad0127 (reporter)
2011-05-28 21:49

Deserts have (semi-)grass.

(0020194)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-02-19 17:31

Given that 0.34.01 has broken save compatibility with 0.31.xx, this is no longer an issue.

(0020206)
Footkerchief (manager)
2012-02-19 19:06

Thanks!

Notes
(0017878) Logical2u (manager) 2011-05-28 12:19	In 31.19 Toady introduced the new grazing mechanics which saw grass and plant growth changed around a lot to accompany that. As such I suspect that the absence of grass is entirely expected in this case. I'd also hazard that because you so drastically terraformed your biome that it's not going to spawn saplings or shrubs. It's not clear from your report if the roads are still there. Tempted to mark this as 'no change required'.

(0017879) Quietust (reporter) 2011-05-28 12:34 edited on: 2011-05-28 12:38	For the record, I did the exact same "cut down every tree, gather every shrub, remove all grass" procedure early in the history of the fortress and everything grew back eventually - I not only have zero grass but also zero shrubs and zero saplings. Were it not for the underground caverns (which seem to have been unaffected by this), all of my woodcutters and herbalists would be permanently unemployed. Also, dirt roads disappear the instant they are "built", just as they always have.

(0017880) Logical2u (manager) 2011-05-28 12:36	Yeah but by 'early in the history of the fortress' I presume you mean 'While still playing 31.18' right?

(0017881) Quietust (reporter) 2011-05-28 12:37	Yes, and I don't see how that makes this any less of a bug.

(0017882) Logical2u (manager) 2011-05-28 13:55	As I said, in 31.19 the grass system was changed. So old maps probably aren't compatible with the new grass.

(0017883) kwieland (reporter) 2011-05-28 13:58	Are surface plants affected by mining out "nearby" tiles, you know, the 2-tile radius?

(0017884) Quietust (reporter) 2011-05-28 14:15 edited on: 2011-05-28 14:32	They are, but I haven't mined out the soil underneath the locations where trees/shrubs are now failing to grow. For reference, this is what my fortress used to look like (and still does, minus the lack of surface plants): http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-9932-releasetreaty [^]

(0017886) Logical2u (manager) 2011-05-28 16:19	So the grass thing might be expected but I guess you're saying the trees/shrub are a bug? I might guess that trees/shrubs have to grow on grass which would neatly inter-relate all three.

(0017888) Quietust (reporter) 2011-05-28 19:11 edited on: 2011-05-28 19:23	I just wrote a DFHack tool to replenish all of the surface grass in my embark region, and once I ran it I immediately noticed shrubs and saplings appearing - thus, it looks like the lack of plants is a side effect of the lack of grass.

(0017889) Logical2u (manager) 2011-05-28 20:20	I wonder if this grass/sapling relationship is part of 31.18, part of the biome, or a regular part of the game. The Wiki indicates that saplings can spawn anywhere, which makes sense to me since you can get cactii for wood in the desert.

(0017891) jaxad0127 (reporter) 2011-05-28 21:49	Deserts have (semi-)grass.

(0020194) Quietust (reporter) 2012-02-19 17:31	Given that 0.34.01 has broken save compatibility with 0.31.xx, this is no longer an issue.

(0020206) Footkerchief (manager) 2012-02-19 19:06	Thanks!

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-05-28 11:35	Quietust	New Issue
2011-05-28 12:19	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017878
2011-05-28 12:19	Logical2u	Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-05-28 12:34	Quietust	Note Added: 0017879
2011-05-28 12:36	Quietust	Note Edited: 0017879	View Revisions
2011-05-28 12:36	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017880
2011-05-28 12:37	Quietust	Note Added: 0017881
2011-05-28 12:38	Quietust	Note Edited: 0017879	View Revisions
2011-05-28 13:55	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017882
2011-05-28 13:58	kwieland	Note Added: 0017883
2011-05-28 14:15	Quietust	Note Added: 0017884
2011-05-28 14:32	Quietust	Note Edited: 0017884	View Revisions
2011-05-28 16:19	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017886
2011-05-28 19:11	Quietust	Note Added: 0017888
2011-05-28 19:23	Quietust	Note Edited: 0017888	View Revisions
2011-05-28 20:20	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017889
2011-05-28 20:20	Logical2u	Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?
2011-05-28 21:49	jaxad0127	Note Added: 0017891
2012-02-19 17:31	Quietust	Note Added: 0020194
2012-02-19 19:06	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0020206
2012-02-19 19:06	Footkerchief	Status	new => resolved
2012-02-19 19:06	Footkerchief	Resolution	open => won't fix
2012-02-19 19:06	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2012-03-05 15:53	Logical2u	Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE

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