0002015: Fishing in a river still reports no fish

Notes
(0007135) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-05-21 12:12	If this is temperature-related, like 0000232 apparently was, this may already be fixed for 31.05. See Toady's comment here: 0000190:0007125

(0007136) nirreln (reporter) 2010-05-21 12:13 edited on: 2010-05-21 12:28	Upon further testing this seems to only affect scorching biomes, normal fishing seems possible in all others. Hmm, ok and yes defiantly temperature related. Edit the second: After altering the melting point of fat from 10078 to 10178 in the raws and generating a new world I'm getting fish from a scorching biome.

(0008176) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-06-12 01:53	Does this problem persist if you move the save to 31.06?

(0008865) kwieland (reporter) 2010-06-21 09:04	I have only been able to catch turtles, not the other fish that were around in 40d. 31.08 Does fishing work for others?

(0009815) user891 2010-07-08 22:57	Still no respawning fish on season change in 31.08 in scorching biomes!

(0010265) smjjames (reporter) 2010-07-14 17:24	I would like to note that in the save at 0002605 , I didn't see any vermin fish in the river either in .10

(0010276) prios (reporter) 2010-07-14 19:03 edited on: 2010-07-14 19:15	I've rarely been able to catch any fish, turtles, mussels, or anything else at my fortresses. If I find that I can catch anything at an embark site, I weep with gratitude. I've never embarked to a scorching biome, either -- I always embarked to temperate biomes, at least until I got fed up and started doing a bunch of testing (see below). This link is to a save file from a fortress in a "pocket island" world that I created in version 31.09 and continued playing into version 31.10. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2690 [^] As stated in the description, no turtles/mussels/fish have been caught in either the swamps or in the underground cavern I broke into: all that's ever bitten the hook is "nothing to catch" messages. Moody dwarves still sometimes demand shells that are impossible to obtain, and are rewarded with death when they go berserk. So I went and did some testing by embarking, fishing, and abandoning at a bunch of different places on my little world map, trying to see if my whole damned world was fishless. Eventually a pattern seemed to appear. Embark in a cold or temperate zone: no fish. (Even in the ocean.) Embark in a warm zone: fish, virtually every time. The exception was one warm-zone embark, though that embark was fairly close to a temperate area. Otherwise, fish (well, turtles and mussels at least) were catchable in the ocean and in swamps. Embark in a hot zone: Fish, every time I tried, in oceans and swamps. Then I decided to try making another world (in 31.10) using "create a new world now!" This one had brooks and streams, so I tried some embarkation tests with those, too, as well as with oceans and swamps. Embark in a cold or temperate zone: Fish in brooks and streams, no fish in oceans, no fish in swamps. Embark in a warm or hot zone: fish, every time, whether in swamps or brooks or streams or oceans. In all cases "fish" refers to anything brought up by the "Fish" job, whether it's a turtle or a salmon or a lamprey or an oyster or a thornback ray. The presence or absence of k-keyable fishy life in a body of water appears to have nothing to do with whether that water is fishable or not. Fishable water can be devoid of visible fish for long stretches of time and still be fishable; unfishable water will sometimes have fishy vermin and such appear in it (especially true of oceans). And no, no, I didn't check scorching biomes at all. I'd like to dedicate this long evening of embarks and abandons to the memory of recruit onul, who attempted to bull-rush a rhesus monkey, landed in a brook, and drowned. He <strikethru>will be</strikethru> missed. Please look into this bug so onul won't have died hilariously in vain.

(0010280) prios (reporter) 2010-07-14 19:25	Aaaand of course now I'm finding that swamps in a rare few embark points do yield turtles even in temperate biomes. sigh So much for that theory. Trying some more testing, will do another save or two. This bug pisses me off so much.

(0010281) prios (reporter) 2010-07-14 19:46	AH HA! The fortress wasn't entirely in a temperate biome! The very southeastern corner was a warm biome, and guess what? That's exactly where the fishable pool was located! None of the other pools on the embark area were fishable! claps hands, squeals girlishly in delight, and does a little dance IfounditIfounditIfoundit! ...ahem. So here's my theory: freezing, or at least very cold temperatures, permanently kills the fishability of swamps (murky pools) and oceans. Brooks and streams, it seems, are not affected. I can't personally say anything about scorching biomes (or freezing biomes), since I didn't bother to test those, but from the other reports it looks like scorching temperatures have more widespread effects, killing fishing in streams and brooks. I want to try something else, though. Is there a way to change the embark time to a different season? goes and looks

(0010282) smjjames (reporter) 2010-07-14 19:53	Nope, you can't change the embark season, its hardwired deeply into the foundation of DF. More testing is probably going to be needed for ifferent worldgen settings and stuff to account for more variables. Not sure if any of the DFHack tools would be of use here.

(0010296) prios (reporter) 2010-07-14 21:19	I just tried editing the raws to make all living stuff (fat, muscle, skin, bone, eye, et cetera) have a colddam_point of "NONE", then making a new world. Still didn't get fish from murky pools or oceans in temperate regions. (Pools in warm regions still work yadda yadda.)

(0010299) Scarfyjnr (reporter) 2010-07-14 21:40 edited on: 2010-07-14 21:43	Ive had no trouble fishing from mountain brooks. Then i like embarking next to a mountain brook. I get mussels, salmon, char, trout ocassionally. I have an overabundance of fish and shells at the moment actually. Edit: Of course i think this was more common after .06. my current fortress is an .09 fortress from an .06 world gen

(0010309) prios (reporter) 2010-07-14 23:21	Tried fishing in a brook and in a stream/river in scorching biomes (31.10, default worldgen parameters). Those had catchable fish; so did the murky pools. I didn't stick around long enough to see if the fish supply "dried up," though. ...and just found another temperate embark point that has fishable pools. Alas. Okay, going to head to bed, then will screw around with DFHack's probe tool later. (It can show exact temperatures.)

(0010364) prios (reporter) 2010-07-15 12:20	Is anybody still having problems with fish in scorching areas? I'm wondering if disabling temperature in "d_init.txt" might fix it. I found that turning off temperature and/or weather in d_init didn't bring fish to an unfishable temperate site, though, even if done before embark. (I did repeated tests at the same site using a backed-up world.)

(0010368) Suilenroc (reporter) 2010-07-15 12:56 edited on: 2010-07-15 12:57	Note, the fishing bug is pretty inconsistent. I've genned a world and created two copies of it, then embarked to the same location in both worlds. In one fort fish are plentiful, and in the other the stream is barren. This particular biome is temperate, no freezing in winter. This is in version 31.10

(0010370) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-07-15 13:05	I've genned a world and created two copies of it, then embarked to the same location in both worlds. In one fort fish are plentiful, and in the other the stream is barren. It might be helpful to upload one of those pre-embark saves, along with a screenshot showing the location you embarked on (the easiest way to do this is to abandon a fortress, then go back to embark, hit Reclaim, and take a screenshot of the site). You can upload to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]

(0010371) hyndis (reporter) 2010-07-15 13:07	In my current fortress in 31.08 there are no fish. I embarked in a freezing biome so obviously there is no fishing up on the surface, but cave lakes, including cave lakes the connect to the edge of the map, also contain no fish. I'll upload the map as soon as I get a chance later on tonight. I'm actually supposed to be working now, but I'm "on break"!

(0010536) prios (reporter) 2010-07-17 21:46	Hello fishing people. How are you. Fantastic. I don't have anything relevant to brooks and streams, only to pools and oceans, but it's about fishing and the lack thereof. Hope that's okay. I did 11 trial runs on a single default world-gen, took a bunch of notes, took some screenshots and wrote some stuff on the screenshots (stuff that's pretty much identical to the notes, but it's for convenience and all), zipped up the world gen file and the screenshots, wrote up the notes in a file description, and posted the thing to DFFD. Here it is: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2718 [^] I hope this is useful to somebody somewhere in some way. I especially hope it is useful in a Dwarf Fortress-related way, but we can't always get what we hope for. curls up in a ball and sucks his thumb

(0010543) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-07-18 01:51 edited on: 2010-07-18 01:51	prios, did you get any interesting results? edit: ah, you posted more details at DFFD.

(0013331) Narmio (reporter) 2010-10-11 20:34	I am still getting fishless caverns in 31.16, even though I can see vermin-fish flitting around in my cavern lakes. The fishing zone I designated reports a non-0 number of "fishing" zone squares, which I thought was an indicator that there are fish there. I am unsure if this is the correct spot to point this out. I hope this comment gets noticed.

(0013333) kwieland (reporter) 2010-10-12 07:06	Fishing zones simply indicate that the area is fishable. It doesn't represent the availability of fish.

(0013337) Narmio (reporter) 2010-10-12 16:42	Ah, right. Well in any case, I can see cave fish swimming two squares from my fisherdude.

(0014030) king doom (reporter) 2010-11-19 15:12 edited on: 2010-11-23 12:56	Latest version of DF, and I'm getting messages about the central cavern has no fish to catch, amusingly enough while I'm reading this I can see several cave fish swimming around maybe a couple squares from my fisherdwarf. EDIT: even better, I'm now getting nothing to catch messages when my dorfs fish in the brook they've been hauling fish from since I started the fort! I thought that was fixed?

(0014490) ethanb (reporter) 2010-12-09 22:03	king doom: the top one might be a bug (vermin - eatable - fish are tracked separately from unit fish, so you might not have any of those) but the second one might not be a bug. The message exists in the first place because it's possible to overfish a resource - if you exhaust the fish population you'll have to wait for it to restock (don't know if that ever happens in DF, but with a running stream coming from off map it's supposed to eventually)

(0015675) Footkerchief (manager) 2011-03-02 09:47	Reminder sent to: hyndis, king doom, Narmio, nirreln, prios, user891, smjjames Animal distribution and biomes have changed in 31.19. What's the current state of this bug?

(0015727) Klotsz (reporter) 2011-03-04 09:45 edited on: 2011-03-04 09:46	I still don't get any fish. My fisherdorf at the beginning of each season runs to a body of water in each of my three biomes, stands there a bit, then reports "There is nothing to catch in the <biome>." This happens in every world I gen.

(0015728) Footkerchief (manager) 2011-03-04 10:25	Reminder sent to: Klotsz It would be helpful to upload your save to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]

(0015731) Klotsz (reporter) 2011-03-04 13:03	Uploaded my latest fortress to http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3892 [^]

(0015785) kwieland (reporter) 2011-03-05 18:08	I generated a default world. I embarked with a default (4x4 square) 14 times with a special profile of booze, food, and fisherman. Sounds like Minnasota, no? Each time I tried to get many biomes, with a stream, river, or brook. Out of the 14 (42 biomes), only 4 had fish. Sometimes I would embark with a stream clearly running in the 4x4 area only to find out that the stream wasn't on the map. I did find it interesting that in the one cold biome with fish I had to wait for the ice to thaw before they would fish. Whatever happened to ice fishing? :)

(0016357) Doradan (reporter) 2011-03-18 14:47 edited on: 2011-03-18 16:51	Started up a standard world (.21), went to warm biome, all my fishers got from the river was lampreys and mussels, no actual fish (I could see them swimming in the river, scad I think), after a full year, I started getting No fish in the River messages and I never got a mussel out of there again. I even made it a fishing zone and I got a message of 0 square viable message. Apparently, I sucked all aquatic life out of it. EDIT: I did a count of my fishers, and I only had 4 out of my 70-some-odd dwarves when the river went metaphorically dry. The pools didn't give me anything at all, even in a warm biome.

(0016362) kwieland (reporter) 2011-03-18 19:11	Doradan, from http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Fish [^] you can see "Note that the vermin you can sometimes actually see have no relation to what you can fish; that is, if you see a turtle in a murky pond, that doesn't mean that you can get any turtles out of that pond with the fishing labor." You at least had fish (defined as anything the fisherdwarfs can catch which includes lampreys and mussels) to begin with. Most embarks don't get any fish at all. Only 14 out of 42 biomes had catchable fish in them when I last checked (see above). And, as you noted, once the fish is gone, it's gone! By the way, you don't have to define zones if you don't want to.

(0016375) Toady One (administrator) 2011-03-19 16:54	The temperature cause of this should be resolved 0.31.22. I'm not sure if that's 0002019 or not as well.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-05-21 11:39	nirreln	New Issue
2010-05-21 11:40	nirreln	Tag Attached: 0.31.04
2010-05-21 11:40	nirreln	Tag Attached: fish
2010-05-21 11:40	nirreln	Tag Attached: fishing
2010-05-21 12:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	child of 0000232
2010-05-21 12:12	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0007135
2010-05-21 12:13	nirreln	Note Added: 0007136
2010-05-21 12:14	nirreln	Note Edited: 0007136	View Revisions
2010-05-21 12:26	nirreln	Note Edited: 0007136	View Revisions
2010-05-21 12:26	nirreln	Note Edited: 0007136	View Revisions
2010-05-21 12:28	nirreln	Note Edited: 0007136	View Revisions
2010-05-27 00:16	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0002079
2010-06-12 01:53	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0008176
2010-06-21 09:04	kwieland	Note Added: 0008865
2010-06-21 09:04	kwieland	Issue Monitored: kwieland
2010-07-08 22:57	user891	Note Added: 0009815
2010-07-14 13:43	prios	Issue Monitored: prios
2010-07-14 17:24	smjjames	Note Added: 0010265
2010-07-14 19:03	prios	Note Added: 0010276
2010-07-14 19:04	prios	Note Edited: 0010276	View Revisions
2010-07-14 19:05	prios	Note Edited: 0010276	View Revisions
2010-07-14 19:15	prios	Note Edited: 0010276	View Revisions
2010-07-14 19:25	prios	Note Added: 0010280
2010-07-14 19:46	prios	Note Added: 0010281
2010-07-14 19:53	smjjames	Note Added: 0010282
2010-07-14 21:19	prios	Note Added: 0010296
2010-07-14 21:40	Scarfyjnr	Note Added: 0010299
2010-07-14 21:43	Scarfyjnr	Note Edited: 0010299	View Revisions
2010-07-14 23:21	prios	Note Added: 0010309
2010-07-15 12:20	prios	Note Added: 0010364
2010-07-15 12:56	Suilenroc	Note Added: 0010368
2010-07-15 12:57	Suilenroc	Note Edited: 0010368	View Revisions
2010-07-15 13:05	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0010370
2010-07-15 13:07	hyndis	Note Added: 0010371
2010-07-17 21:46	prios	Note Added: 0010536
2010-07-18 01:51	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0010543
2010-07-18 01:51	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0010543	View Revisions
2010-07-21 21:25	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0002780
2010-07-21 21:25	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0002019
2010-07-21 21:26	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	parent of 0002019
2010-07-22 09:35	Jinalealia	Issue Monitored: Jinalealia
2010-07-24 10:36	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001854
2010-07-24 10:36	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	No => Yes
2010-08-11 08:42	Taranli Maren	Issue Monitored: Taranli Maren
2010-08-26 22:21	Beeskee	Issue Monitored: Beeskee
2010-08-26 23:41	kuketski	Issue Monitored: kuketski
2010-10-04 14:39	Another	Issue Monitored: Another
2010-10-11 20:34	Narmio	Note Added: 0013331
2010-10-12 07:06	kwieland	Note Added: 0013333
2010-10-12 07:54	Quietust	Note Added: 0013334
2010-10-12 07:54	Quietust	Note Deleted: 0013334
2010-10-12 16:42	Narmio	Note Added: 0013337
2010-11-03 14:06	jwest23	Issue Monitored: jwest23
2010-11-03 15:59	madjoe5	Issue Monitored: madjoe5
2010-11-10 22:18	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-11-19 15:12	king doom	Note Added: 0014030
2010-11-23 12:56	king doom	Note Edited: 0014030	View Revisions
2010-12-09 22:03	ethanb	Note Added: 0014490
2010-12-10 13:20	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.19?
2011-03-02 09:47	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: hyndis
2011-03-02 09:47	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: king doom
2011-03-02 09:47	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Narmio
2011-03-02 09:47	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: user891
2011-03-02 09:47	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: smjjames
2011-03-02 09:47	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0015675
2011-03-02 09:48	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-03-04 09:45	Klotsz	Note Added: 0015727
2011-03-04 09:46	Klotsz	Note Edited: 0015727	View Revisions
2011-03-04 10:25	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Klotsz
2011-03-04 10:25	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0015728
2011-03-04 13:03	Klotsz	Note Added: 0015731
2011-03-05 18:08	kwieland	Note Added: 0015785
2011-03-07 16:49	Another	Tag Attached: Save Included
2011-03-18 14:47	Doradan	Note Added: 0016357
2011-03-18 14:50	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0000232
2011-03-18 14:50	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-03-18 14:50	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: Fixed in 0.31.19?
2011-03-18 14:50	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: 0.31.04
2011-03-18 16:51	Doradan	Note Edited: 0016357	View Revisions
2011-03-18 19:11	kwieland	Note Added: 0016362
2011-03-19 16:53	Toady One	Relationship replaced	related to 0002780
2011-03-19 16:53	Toady One	Relationship replaced	related to 0002019
2011-03-19 16:54	Toady One	Note Added: 0016375
2011-03-19 16:54	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2011-03-19 16:54	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> 0.31.22
2011-03-19 16:54	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2011-03-19 16:54	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One
2011-03-19 18:17	kwieland	Issue End Monitor: kwieland
2011-03-19 20:03	Khym Chanur	Issue End Monitor: Khym Chanur
2011-03-20 10:53	madjoe5	Issue End Monitor: madjoe5
2011-03-21 01:43	Another	Issue End Monitor: Another
2011-04-01 07:31	king doom	Issue End Monitor: king doom
2011-04-05 12:32	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0002019
2012-03-17 07:12	Dwarfu	Sticky Issue	Yes => No
2014-08-04 08:33	smjjames	Issue End Monitor: smjjames