0003685: Goblin squads invading a fortress will kill their non-goblin squadmates, sparking loyalty cascade

Notes
(0014048) Heinzy (reporter) 2010-11-20 05:46	That is actually pretty sweet. Different groups breaking off the main civ and all, even if it is a bug.

(0014133) Langdon (reporter) 2010-11-21 22:42	Digging deeper into legends, this is how I think I managed to produce this situation: 1. Mod your game so DEFAULT_CIV for goblins is CITY instead of dark fortresses, so goblins spawn with human-like towns. 2. Find a goblin civ and a town/hamlet founded by a subgroup of that civ. Ideally this town would be close to potential embark sites for your future fortresses, and invaders would be coming from this town. 3. Create an adventurer from a civ at war with the goblins, and have him get some reputation (enough to be able to hire four or five companions). 4. Go to the goblin town you picked with your adventurer (make sure you have free slots for hiring more companions) and attempt to get a random goblin to Join your group. This should be possible if your adventurer has not killed any goblins yet (and is unknown to the goblin civ). 5. Watch as all the other goblins pummel the hapless gobby you hired. Watch them kill each other afterward for murdering the goblin. 6. ? ? ? 7. Profit! * *"Profit" in this case means goblin mayhem, and a relatively safe environment for fortresses in the area, as goblin ambushes will reveal themselves as soon as they enter the map, and goblin sieges will soon devolve into vicious free-for-alls. It should be possible to produce similar human or elven loyalty cascades if you can spawn adventurers from civs at war with them.

(0014134) Langdon (reporter) 2010-11-22 00:26 edited on: 2010-11-22 00:27	Ok I was wrong, apparently someone else has this bug (goblins killing human squadmates) here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15096.msg1735846#msg1735846 [^] so maybe it wasn't triggered by my adventure mode massacre. Must test with a new worldgen.

(0014159) nordak (reporter) 2010-11-22 22:58	I'm noticing this bug as well, also occurs in Deon's Genesis mod with the demon race.

(0014188) Langdon (reporter) 2010-11-24 07:06	I started a new fort (also under 31.18, same worldgen as before) and it looks like it's definitely an issue with human squadmates in the goblin squad. Even without an adventurer stirring things up, goblins will attack humans in their own squads, descending afterwards into a loyalty cascade until the ambush squads are decimated. In this new fort, the first two ambushes did not have any human members, and proceeded normally (i.e. coming out of stealth only when discovered). The third ambush had a human member in one squad, and after the human was attacked, the other squads also started fighting with each other (even if they did not have any non-goblin members). The only mods to the game were setting default site to CITY for elves, dwarves and goblins, and changing PET_EXOTIC to PET for a few animals.

(0014257) EddyP (reporter) 2010-11-27 15:13	Here too - two goblin squads immediately revealed themselves, killed a member each (a goblin and a dwarf) and ran away. I'm running Deon's Genesis.

(0014348) Langdon (reporter) 2010-12-01 09:07 edited on: 2010-12-01 09:09	more corroboration from other players: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=72047.0 [^] As a wild guess, abductees might retain membership in their old civ entity and are not properly "inducted" into the goblin civ, but properly become members of the town where they are relocated. (i.e. abductee from Innocent Alliance becomes a member of The Clean Malice (subgroup), but not a member of The Dread Trails (civ)) and thus are immediately seen as enemies by Dread Trails goblins who are not from The Clean Malice. Edit: The infighting seemed to go away after five or so years into the fortresses' life. Possibly the Clean Malice had no more goblins left (all able-bodied goblins killed in ambushes or sieges) and no longer contributed goblins to the war effort? After this point ambushes appeared from stealth normally, and sieges worked correctly, with no infighting.

(0014350) SocietalEclipse (reporter) 2010-12-01 12:50	Unlike the others I have this happening in 31.18 with a completely unmodded world. It all started with a ambush that had human members as others have reported. Previous goblin-only ambushes worked fine.

(0014612) Quil (reporter) 2010-12-16 19:02 edited on: 2010-12-16 19:09	Just experienced this one myself. Screen immediately zooms to the ambush as it arrives (thrice, in this case), each with a few goblins and a single dwarf. "Strange," thinks I, "someone must have REALLY good eyesight." Assign soldiers to kill everyone, three seconds later there's blood all over the place and all the ambushers run away. Combat logs show that the goblins started fighting the dwarves. Previous ambushes with nothing but goblins went as per usual. Am yet to experience the "loyalty cascade" that causes a free-for-all, since no other enemies have arrived yet. Using custom, home-made mod that inserts a new race, civilisation, and some items and materials. No adjustments to existing raws. V0.31.18, naturally.

(0014618) FGK dwarf (reporter) 2010-12-17 11:31	I'm having this issue too. v0.31.18, unmodded. This is fort 0000002 is the current world, and I've played a few adventurers who fought goblin bandits. The first two ambushes on this fort proceeded as usual. The current one was revealed on the edge of the map and the squad leaders immediately started fighting their soldiers. Unlike the reports above, all the invaders are goblins: no abductees of other races.

(0014622) Quil (reporter) 2010-12-18 10:53	...And now, with the next set of ambushers, I have combat logs like "the Goblin Swordsman stabs the Goblin Swordsman with etc." Only one goblin survived the complete free-for-all.

(0014850) LurkersA (reporter) 2011-01-12 14:10	I've been experiencing this issue too, on 0.31.18 unmodded. I get 4-8 pause events with "An ambush, curse them!" with goblin squads appearing around the borders of my map. The squads then turn on themselves. If any goblins survive the squad massacre, they will then run for the nearest survivor from another squad and proceed to duke it out. This happens until there are 0 - 1 goblins left on the map (typically the last survivor dies from injuries). Though entertaining, this is hampering my attempts to test my drowning trap.

(0014902) Leex (reporter) 2011-01-18 14:13	I can confirm this bug. Clean install. 31.18 generated world. No previous adventuring. 4 ambush squads arrive in short order. Every time they are immediately announced and uncovered. 1 Dwarf in each squad. He gets killed, and goblins commence killing each other.

(0014981) Glanzor (reporter) 2011-02-04 03:10	I have that happened to all-goblin ambush parties as well. What I noticed that most of the time, the ambusher that gets attacked by their teammates is some kind of historical figure, a general or war leader or something while the rest are just generic generated goblins. Is it possible that this is caused by the new [local_banditry]-tag? I noticed in adventure-mode that it makes goblins attack creature from the same civilization if they are from different sites. Maybe the ones that get attacked just have a different site membership than the rest?

(0015766) TerryDactyl (reporter) 2011-03-05 10:15	I am not so sure this issue has anything to do with multi-race 'goblin' squads. I don't think I've ever seen a human, a dwarf or an elf in an ambush squad, yet the goblins consistently choose my home for their own form of gladitorial combat. There's rarely more than one or two left for my military to clean up.

(0015774) swanxxx (reporter) 2011-03-05 15:01	Im having this problem aswell, running v31.19 first fortress in this world and no adventuring, its happened to about 7 ambushes so far

(0016347) kwieland (reporter) 2011-03-18 06:19	It's not a bug, it's a feature! Imagine getting kidnapped as a slave civ. How do you react revenge? Wait it out, right? Til the time is right. What better time to exact revenge than when you are fully armed, on the doorstep of your enemies enemies and nobody is watching! I am SPARTACUS!

(0016355) Quietust (reporter) 2011-03-18 13:59	Other reports suggest that this may also be happening with goblin-only squads where the leaders were original members of the civilization - the remaining members of the squad are created out of thin air (as has always been the case), and it may not be setting their allegiance properly.

(0020039) Knigel (reporter) 2012-02-18 09:18	I've actually encountered something like this in adventure mode .34.01: a goblin attacked my human adventurer even though they were from the same human civ.

(0029810) smjjames (reporter) 2014-08-30 15:06 edited on: 2014-08-30 15:07	Here's one in 0.40.10 adventure mode. Initially I thought it was some kind of battle since I saw fighting announcements of dwarves fighting goblins, but they were all hostile to me and occasionally they'd attack each other. A bit later (after I had some fun with the recruits, who weren't particularily dangerous) when I decided to try and sneak in to see if they were camping or something, I saw a bunch of the dwarven recruits attack one of the goblin soldiers, and there were other fights earlier. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9572 [^]

(0032154) Detros (manager) 2015-02-05 11:36 edited on: 2015-02-05 12:35	In 40.24 goblin army attacked my fort while I was retiring it and spawning adventurer there. So far I have seen only fights of goblins with trolls and goblins with dwarves, trolls seem to not attack anyone or just goblins.

(0034231) Dwarfu (manager) 2015-12-27 18:33	I'm not seeing this in 42.xx, invaders have mixed groups and seem to get along. Can anyone provide a current save that still demonstrates this issue?

(0036958) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2017-11-24 04:43	Within 0010338 goblin outcasts underneath a city/hamlet (unclear) were hostile to each other actively fighting & attacking the adventurer player on sight. Likely from different goblin sites & groups of origin. Slaves took in by goblins (with different core values as they are taken from enemy sites) as cited by summary are likely being killed by the goblins [ANGER_PROPENSITY] value which causes them, a trigger being disagreements & arguements. At random, arguements send them into a fit of rage where they attempt to murder the nearest person (usually the person they were speaking to) until they calm down frequently triggering loyalty cascades with those nearby. A review of the requirements needed to activate a goblin's anger could be required, so that they don't attack their friends or acquaintances just by a imbalanced values comparison without good reason.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-11-20 05:24	Langdon	New Issue
2010-11-20 05:46	Heinzy	Note Added: 0014048
2010-11-20 06:33	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0003259
2010-11-20 16:41	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-11-21 22:42	Langdon	Note Added: 0014133
2010-11-22 00:26	Langdon	Note Added: 0014134
2010-11-22 00:27	Langdon	Note Edited: 0014134	View Revisions
2010-11-22 22:58	nordak	Note Added: 0014159
2010-11-24 07:06	Langdon	Note Added: 0014188
2010-11-27 15:13	EddyP	Note Added: 0014257
2010-11-29 20:42	Sfon	Issue Monitored: Sfon
2010-12-01 09:07	Langdon	Note Added: 0014348
2010-12-01 09:09	Langdon	Note Edited: 0014348	View Revisions
2010-12-01 12:50	SocietalEclipse	Note Added: 0014350
2010-12-01 19:44	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2010-12-06 06:09	Glanzor	Issue Monitored: Glanzor
2010-12-16 19:02	Quil	Note Added: 0014612
2010-12-16 19:09	Quil	Note Edited: 0014612	View Revisions
2010-12-17 11:31	FGK dwarf	Note Added: 0014618
2010-12-18 10:53	Quil	Note Added: 0014622
2011-01-09 17:53	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003879
2011-01-12 14:10	LurkersA	Note Added: 0014850
2011-01-13 22:19	nb4est	Issue Monitored: nb4est
2011-01-18 14:13	Leex	Note Added: 0014902
2011-02-04 03:10	Glanzor	Note Added: 0014981
2011-02-04 16:22	mrchinchin25	Issue Monitored: mrchinchin25
2011-02-27 12:09	Logical2u	Relationship added	parent of 0004080
2011-03-02 07:20	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004107
2011-03-05 10:15	TerryDactyl	Note Added: 0015766
2011-03-05 15:01	swanxxx	Note Added: 0015774
2011-03-07 16:42	Another	Tag Attached: AI
2011-03-18 04:27	Malibu Stacey	Issue Monitored: Malibu Stacey
2011-03-18 06:19	kwieland	Note Added: 0016347
2011-03-18 13:59	Quietust	Note Added: 0016355
2011-03-18 14:25	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0004244
2011-03-18 14:25	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0004244
2011-03-18 14:25	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	parent of 0004244
2011-03-25 14:38	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004336
2011-03-25 18:24	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0004336
2011-04-14 20:12	Logical2u	Relationship added	parent of 0004526
2012-02-18 06:46	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0005252
2012-02-18 09:18	Knigel	Note Added: 0020039
2012-02-26 11:50	Buglist	Issue Monitored: Buglist
2012-04-15 07:15	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0005815
2013-12-07 05:13	Thundercraft	Issue Monitored: Thundercraft
2014-01-22 09:37	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0004526
2014-01-26 10:39	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001586
2014-01-27 13:07	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003597
2014-07-13 09:33	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004680
2014-07-13 09:34	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007060
2014-07-13 09:34	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007125
2014-07-13 10:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0006306
2014-07-13 17:43	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007238
2014-07-14 09:04	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0005164
2014-07-14 18:56	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0006627
2014-07-14 18:58	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007306
2014-07-20 09:26	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007511
2014-07-20 09:45	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0006663
2014-07-23 22:24	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007597
2014-08-20 17:57	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007758
2014-08-21 11:39	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0008093
2014-08-30 15:06	smjjames	Note Added: 0029810
2014-08-30 15:07	smjjames	Note Edited: 0029810	View Revisions
2014-08-30 17:40	4maskwolf	Issue Monitored: 4maskwolf
2014-10-28 16:47	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0008267
2015-02-05 11:36	Detros	Note Added: 0032154
2015-02-05 12:35	Detros	Note Edited: 0032154	View Revisions
2015-12-03 10:22	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0005252
2015-12-27 18:33	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0034231
2015-12-27 18:33	Dwarfu	Assigned To	=> Dwarfu
2015-12-27 18:33	Dwarfu	Status	new => needs feedback
2017-11-24 04:43	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0036958