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|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0004034||Dwarf Fortress||Geology||public||2011-02-20 09:12||2012-03-02 17:40|
|Assigned To||Toady One|
|Priority||normal||Severity||major||Reproducibility||have not tried|
|Platform||HP G60-120CA||OS||Windows Vista||OS Version||Home Premium|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version||0.31.20|
|Summary||0004034: Metal is scarce|
|Description||This fort has no minerals, other than gems, even though the pre-embark screen says it has shallow and deep metals.|
See http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3822 [^] for the save and DFProspector output
|Does this mean that literally all of the rock on your map is gems?|
No, it means that there are no mineral veins but lots of gems. I get this:
OPAL_PINFIRE : 257
HELIODOR : 316
OPAL_CRYSTAL : 323
CLEAR ZIRCON : 789
QUARTZ_ROSE : 816
OPAL_PFIRE : 923
MORION : 973
YELLOW ZIRCON : 1338
BROWN ZIRCON : 1577
SPINEL_PURPLE : 2018
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 2727
WOOD OPAL : 3290
SCHORL : 4464
PRASE : 4653
ALEXANDRITE : 4759
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 10335
TETRAHEDRITE : 12160
SLADE : 210244
Adamantine is unaffected, it would seem.
|Tetrahedrite may cover both shallow and deep, or it is the shallow and adamantine is the deep one.|
Knight Otu (manager)
If adamantine were the deep one, shouldn't it show up on every tile profile? As I understand it, adamantine pillars should show up at least once in a given area (2x2?), and potentially more often.
In any case, the output linked in the original issue shows no metal ore of any kind apart from adamantine.
|Yeah, the adamantine makes sense. I thought the readout Artfunkel posted was from the OP's save, which shows tetrahedrite, but I see now that the OP's readout is in the DFFD link.|
edited on: 2011-02-21 18:24
I just got this myself
used create world now and after finding a viable location to start I ran prospector and found this
CHERRY OPAL : 19
SCHORL : 82
YELLOW SPESSARTINE : 207
MOSS OPAL : 230
ONYX OPAL : 231
GREEN ZIRCON : 306
LAPIS LAZULI : 323
MILK OPAL : 337
INDIGO TOURMALINE : 368
EMERALD : 463
RHODOLITE : 764
HORNBLENDE : 824
SMOKY QUARTZ : 977
RED ZIRCON : 1093
PRASE OPAL : 1284
OPAL_REDFLASH : 1780
BLACK ZIRCON : 2390
WOOD OPAL : 2553
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 6492
BROWN ZIRCON : 30020
OPAL_HARLEQUIN : 35897
NATIVE_GOLD : 217340
SLADE : 239083
I then ran Reveal and confirmed for the most part what Prospector was telling me.....only it didn't report the waste stones like chert and such
there is something heavily wrong with the generation code
edited on: 2011-02-23 05:51
Yes, it seems new map generator put veins extremely rare. I often discover layers made entirely from rock and haven't seen a single map where I could make at least bronze (steel is possible tho). Either this is a bug or new (unnamed?) feature.
|I think I have the same problem on my map. After drilling through to the magma sea, the only metals I've found are malachite and tetrahedrite (one vein each). In the previous versions, there were loads of ores in the caverns, and here there are none.|
Not sure about this, but could it be that the texts "shadow metals" and "deep metals" refer to the whole layer of that specific biome in local area? I mean that the text doesn't seem to change when moving in same biome, so perhaps the game shows those text if somewhere in that specific biome there are ore veins? That the correct locations of those veins must be found by trial and error method.
Only Toady is able to confirm this, though it would explain why the text is shown when clearly there are no veins in the embark area.
it was intended as far i saw, as the devblog stated that metals are really scarce now, and even if you have metals on a site it could be its only the really small patchs of aluminium.
it should maybe state a little more than just "deep/shallow" metal as most forts are now hard to run without armor/weapon metals :/ and hard to plan anything at all
The fort I just started (so haven't been playing that long) on the embark screen said it had deep metals and shallow metals, as well as flux. So far all I've found is schist, gabbro, granite, diorite, a whole heap of gems and a small vein of tin and a small one of silver. I haven't been able to find any flux.
I've discovered a few caverns, but they all just have junk rocks like granite and diorite. No real metal or a single stone of flux to be found.
edited on: 2011-02-24 10:25
I think it's safe to say that even if intentional......nobody really enjoys the change
should toady see this......he should revert the metal generation back to 31.18 standards
|I don't think it's safe to say that at all. While I think metals are a bit too rare in this version, previous .31 versions had it much too common. Being able to make every piece of furniture in a fortress out of solid gold, on every single map? That was unenjoyable. We don't play DF because it's easy. It's supposed to be hard.|
I think that's too much of personal opinion
see that prospector output of mine......there was nothing on the map at all other than gold
and all of that gold was situated 2-5 z levels from HFS.....thanks to Reveal I found that out
and there was at least 50 z levels to reach it
there was nothing else on the map.......how do you think I'd of done anything?
|This bug report has nothing to do with how scarce metal is, it's the misleading "Shallow Metal"/"Deep Metal" message. Could we get a change in summary?|
edited on: 2011-03-06 13:56
TETRAHEDRITE : 12160 is metal. 100% copper / 20% silver in fact. So the title of this report is misleading.
Now... I do agree that I HATE HATE HATE the shallow metal(s)/deep metal(s) system. Here is what it seems to mean from my personal testing. I did all my testing on 2x2 embark areas.
"Metal" means ONE type of metal. This is roughly 4000 units of metal in a 2x2 embark with default settings.
"Metals" means TWO (or more?) types of metal. This is roughly 1300 units each of metal in a 2x2 embark with default settings. In my testing I never saw more than two types of metal.
Shallow and Deep metal appear to draw from different material lists. Shallow metal is much more likely to produce copper. Deep metal is most often Iron.
The obvious problem with this is you really have no clue what metal you're going to get. You could get iron, or you could get something truly worthless like lead.
Even if you carefully select the most choice sites of shallow metals/deep metals than you have at MOST four different types of metals. In most cases you'll have duplicates. The best I have personally seen was copper/gold/iron with access to flux. Although you are more likely to get something truly worthless like copper/copper/copper/gold.
The lack of variety in metals is truly aggravating. With this system a map that can produce bronze from local resources is even more rare than steel.
|The fact is, in the real world one of the reasons for the rising of commerce through the mediterranean in the ancient age was the need for tin or copper to make bronze, as usually a site doesn't have both.|
That might be a valid argument if it was actually possible to trade for more than 4 bars of tin per YEAR. Even assuming you buy/melt everything you can get your grubby hands on trade is a tactic of desperation really.
You'll end up with plenty of iron weapons and armor simply from surviving sieges long before you ever have any usable quantities of bronze from trade.
|2011-02-20 09:12||Root Infinity||New Issue|
|2011-02-21 08:33||Footkerchief||Note Added: 0015360|
|2011-02-21 11:32||Artfunkel||Note Added: 0015362|
|2011-02-21 11:52||Dwarfu||Note Added: 0015364|
|2011-02-21 12:00||Knight Otu||Note Added: 0015365|
|2011-02-21 12:29||Dwarfu||Note Added: 0015366|
|2011-02-21 12:31||Dwarfu||Tag Attached: Save Included|
|2011-02-21 12:31||Dwarfu||Tag Attached: Save Needs Testing|
|2011-02-21 18:19||dravus||Note Added: 0015380|
|2011-02-21 18:24||dravus||Note Edited: 0015380||View Revisions|
|2011-02-21 18:24||dravus||Note Edited: 0015380||View Revisions|
|2011-02-23 05:47||afftor||Note Added: 0015414|
|2011-02-23 05:51||afftor||Note Edited: 0015414||View Revisions|
|2011-02-23 05:52||afftor||Issue Monitored: afftor|
|2011-02-23 06:21||AbuDhabi||Note Added: 0015418|
|2011-02-23 07:16||Footkerchief||Summary||No minerals present on embark => Metal is scarce|
|2011-02-23 07:17||Footkerchief||Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.20?|
|2011-02-23 08:04||afftor||Tag Attached: *CLT*|
|2011-02-23 08:05||afftor||Tag Detached: *CLT*|
|2011-02-23 08:56||Kipi||Note Added: 0015424|
|2011-02-23 12:48||Khym Chanur||Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur|
|2011-02-23 13:04||Kogut||Note Added: 0015431|
|2011-02-23 13:05||Kogut||Note Deleted: 0015431|
|2011-02-23 17:50||Rhenaya||Note Added: 0015434|
|2011-02-24 10:12||Infiltrator||Note Added: 0015449|
|2011-02-24 10:24||dravus||Note Added: 0015453|
|2011-02-24 10:25||dravus||Note Edited: 0015453||View Revisions|
|2011-02-24 13:35||Silophant||Note Added: 0015473|
|2011-02-24 14:08||dravus||Note Added: 0015474|
|2011-03-05 10:16||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0001111|
|2011-03-06 08:00||dree12||Note Added: 0015802|
|2011-03-06 13:43||DoctorZuber||Note Added: 0015845|
|2011-03-06 13:46||DoctorZuber||Note Edited: 0015845||View Revisions|
|2011-03-06 13:47||thvaz||Note Added: 0015847|
|2011-03-06 13:47||DoctorZuber||Note Edited: 0015845||View Revisions|
|2011-03-06 13:52||DoctorZuber||Note Added: 0015848|
|2011-03-06 13:56||DoctorZuber||Note Edited: 0015845||View Revisions|
|2011-03-06 14:05||Footkerchief||Status||new => resolved|
|2011-03-06 14:05||Footkerchief||Fixed in Version||=> 0.31.20|
|2011-03-06 14:05||Footkerchief||Resolution||open => fixed|
|2011-03-06 14:05||Footkerchief||Assigned To||=> Toady One|
|2011-03-06 14:57||Khym Chanur||Issue End Monitor: Khym Chanur|
|2011-03-17 09:53||afftor||Issue End Monitor: afftor|
|2011-10-29 05:45||Dwarfu||Tag Detached: Fixed in 0.31.20?|
|2012-03-02 17:40||Dwarfu||Tag Detached: Save Needs Testing|
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