0000048: Elves bring tame tigermen in cages because they have [PET] and [PETVALUE:x]

(0000050)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2010-04-01 17:59

elves bringing sentient slaves? I just can't see it. I'd expect that from the humans, but not the elves. But who knows.

(0000186)
Criptfeind (reporter)
2010-04-02 08:34

This almost seems like it is supost to happen.

(0000612)
dree12 (reporter)
2010-04-03 12:00

Elves have [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_EXILE] so it isn't intended.

(0000700)
Urist Imiknorris (reporter)
2010-04-03 16:06

Are we sure this needs fixing?

(0000709)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2010-04-03 16:40

I wouldn't call it priority, but I think it's a bug yes.

(0000714)
MaDeR Levap (reporter)
2010-04-03 16:54

Yes, at least it should be in agreement with ethics of given civilization/race.

(0003120)
Kumquat (reporter)
2010-04-12 14:03

Looking at raws (c_variation_default), it looks like animalman template removes [PET_EXOTIC] but not [PET] or [MOUNT_EXOTIC]. Perhaps the elves 'think' they are selling tigerman mounts?

Likewise giant template removes [PET_EXOTIC] but not [MOUNT_EXOTIC], which sounds like giant variations are not supposed to be tamable.

(0003129)
Draco18s (reporter)
2010-04-12 14:59

@Kumquat: (Giant) Bear Cavalry http://tinyurl.com/y9dr9z5 [^]

(0006159)
Flaede (reporter)
2010-05-05 02:41

They're TAME tigermen. Pets.
Very odd, either way. They don't show up in the animals screen. Come to think of it, none of the exotics do.

(0006180)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-05-05 09:24

Flaede: that's 0000482.

(0006223)
tatterdemalian (reporter)
2010-05-05 18:10

That would be cool if elves kept sentients as slaves, but would pitch a fit if your dwarves have non-sentient pets. They're supposed to be Dwarf Fortress's equivalent of PETA, right?

(0006265)
Knight Of Our Lady (reporter)
2010-05-06 06:40

Another user reports: his dwarf became depressed after a battle with goblins and was put into a cage and chained. While encaged, he became Tame Animal and is now refusing to come out of the cage, which makes it impossible to get him to put off his full plate armor and weapons. They tried to starve him, but it does not work.

(0007437)
thranguy (reporter)
2010-05-28 14:30

If you buy these tigermen, you can appoint them to noble offices, which doesn't seem right...

(0007543)
dree12 (reporter)
2010-06-01 16:33

The tigermen ARE intelligent. Maybe try removing [PET]? To me it doesn't make sense raising intelligent beings as pets. But elves are elves...

(0011408)
Baughn (manager)
2010-08-02 12:18

Humans have been known to raise humans as pets. In real life, too.

It isn't pretty, but it's definitely *possible*.

(0012753)
GauHelldragon (reporter)
2010-09-17 08:34

I've caught tigermen myself and was able to tame them, without a dungeon master even. They require water to live, and will die of dehydration if you leave them in a cage. I haven't spotted one eating, but they might do that as well. They otherwise act like stray animals.

I have noticed one go out and fight a wild tigerman. It managed to defeat it and gained a couple of combat skills as well.

(0015110)
slink (reporter)
2011-02-15 15:40

Still here in 31.18. They die of thirst in cages, and also die of thirst at liberty. I just had one die of thirst in the meeting area. There is plenty of booze available, and also a perfectly good well. There are barrels of milk, too, but I suppose tigermen don't lap milk. ;D

(0015111)
Hieronymous Alloy (reporter)
2011-02-15 21:02

Tigermen can't use wells if they're more than a tile up from the water. I suspect they're unable to lower and raise the bucket.

(0015112)
Ogg the Blinky Sock (reporter)
2011-02-16 04:50

Calvin Urdimkir cancels Open Can of Tuna: interrupted by Tigerman.

(0015113)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-02-16 08:02

The tigerman well problem is probably because they aren't actually using the well - they're just drinking from what they think is the shore of a pool/river.

(0015114)
Kumquat (reporter)
2011-02-16 08:26

I have had a bunch of tigermen (caught with cage traps) alive and thriving in my fort a good while. They do eat - mostly meat, it would seem - and drink from the brook that runs through the walls.

I had to confine them to a burrow because otherwise they usually wanted to go and drink from the leftmost spot of the brook. This may be a bug or a misfeature.

(0015115)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-02-16 08:27

Is this still happening in 31.19?

(0015291)
Dwarfu (manager)
2011-02-19 15:37

I haven't observed it, but the raws for tigermen still contain a [PETVALUE:x] and [PET] tag, which seemed to be the source of the problem.

(0016989)
Dwarfu (manager)
2011-04-02 13:29

flieroflight reported this as still happening on the forums:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81181.msg2140285#msg2140285 [^]

(0017158)
king doom (reporter)
2011-04-07 07:41

I can confirm the elves are still filthy pointy eared slavetraders in the newest version of DF (31.25)

(0023866)
Dwarfu (manager)
2013-03-03 22:26

This seems to be particular to tigermen, as they are a single entry and don't make use of the animal man creature variation.

The missing tags from that variation and the GIANT one that Kumquat mentioned were previously corrected, but tigermen still have the [PET] and [PETVALUE:x] tags.

(0025884)
SirPenguin (reporter)
2014-07-11 17:56

Tigermen still have the [PET] and [PETVALUE:x] tags as of 40.02

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-01 16:54	Dwarfu	New Issue
2010-04-01 17:59	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0000050
2010-04-02 06:16	Todestool	Tag Attached: trade
2010-04-02 08:34	Criptfeind	Note Added: 0000186
2010-04-03 12:00	dree12	Note Added: 0000612
2010-04-03 16:06	Urist Imiknorris	Note Added: 0000700
2010-04-03 16:40	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0000709
2010-04-03 16:54	MaDeR Levap	Note Added: 0000714
2010-04-12 14:03	Kumquat	Note Added: 0003120
2010-04-12 14:59	Draco18s	Note Added: 0003129
2010-04-14 16:09	simrobert	Issue Monitored: simrobert
2010-04-14 16:49	strangething	Tag Attached: pet
2010-04-22 18:29	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001442
2010-04-29 13:38	Footkerchief	Category	General => Dwarf Mode -- Trade
2010-05-05 02:41	Flaede	Note Added: 0006159
2010-05-05 09:24	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0006180
2010-05-05 18:10	tatterdemalian	Note Added: 0006223
2010-05-06 06:40	Knight Of Our Lady	Note Added: 0006265
2010-05-28 14:30	thranguy	Note Added: 0007437
2010-06-01 16:33	dree12	Note Added: 0007543
2010-08-02 12:18	Baughn	Note Added: 0011408
2010-09-17 08:34	GauHelldragon	Note Added: 0012753
2011-02-15 15:40	slink	Note Added: 0015110
2011-02-15 21:02	Hieronymous Alloy	Note Added: 0015111
2011-02-16 04:50	Ogg the Blinky Sock	Note Added: 0015112
2011-02-16 07:26	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2011-02-16 08:02	Quietust	Note Added: 0015113
2011-02-16 08:26	Kumquat	Note Added: 0015114
2011-02-16 08:27	Logical2u	Note Added: 0015115
2011-02-19 15:37	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0015291
2011-04-02 13:29	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0016989
2011-04-07 07:41	king doom	Note Added: 0017158
2012-01-23 12:37	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004103
2012-01-23 12:38	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0004103
2012-03-12 07:27	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Toady One
2013-03-03 22:26	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0023866
2014-01-26 09:15	Footkerchief	Summary	Elves bring tame sentients in cages => Elves bring tame tigermen in cages because they have [PET] and [PETVALUE:x]
2014-01-26 09:16	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Probable Quick Fix
2014-07-11 17:56	SirPenguin	Note Added: 0025884
2014-07-23 15:04	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2014-07-23 15:04	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2014-07-23 15:04	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2014-07-23 15:04	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One

Notes
(0000050) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-01 17:59	elves bringing sentient slaves? I just can't see it. I'd expect that from the humans, but not the elves. But who knows.

(0000186) Criptfeind (reporter) 2010-04-02 08:34	This almost seems like it is supost to happen.

(0000612) dree12 (reporter) 2010-04-03 12:00	Elves have [ETHIC:SLAVERY:PUNISH_EXILE] so it isn't intended.

(0000700) Urist Imiknorris (reporter) 2010-04-03 16:06	Are we sure this needs fixing?

(0000709) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-03 16:40	I wouldn't call it priority, but I think it's a bug yes.

(0000714) MaDeR Levap (reporter) 2010-04-03 16:54	Yes, at least it should be in agreement with ethics of given civilization/race.

(0003120) Kumquat (reporter) 2010-04-12 14:03	Looking at raws (c_variation_default), it looks like animalman template removes [PET_EXOTIC] but not [PET] or [MOUNT_EXOTIC]. Perhaps the elves 'think' they are selling tigerman mounts? Likewise giant template removes [PET_EXOTIC] but not [MOUNT_EXOTIC], which sounds like giant variations are not supposed to be tamable.

(0003129) Draco18s (reporter) 2010-04-12 14:59	@Kumquat: (Giant) Bear Cavalry http://tinyurl.com/y9dr9z5 [^]

(0006159) Flaede (reporter) 2010-05-05 02:41	They're TAME tigermen. Pets. Very odd, either way. They don't show up in the animals screen. Come to think of it, none of the exotics do.

(0006180) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-05-05 09:24	Flaede: that's 0000482.

(0006223) tatterdemalian (reporter) 2010-05-05 18:10	That would be cool if elves kept sentients as slaves, but would pitch a fit if your dwarves have non-sentient pets. They're supposed to be Dwarf Fortress's equivalent of PETA, right?

(0006265) Knight Of Our Lady (reporter) 2010-05-06 06:40	Another user reports: his dwarf became depressed after a battle with goblins and was put into a cage and chained. While encaged, he became Tame Animal and is now refusing to come out of the cage, which makes it impossible to get him to put off his full plate armor and weapons. They tried to starve him, but it does not work.

(0007437) thranguy (reporter) 2010-05-28 14:30	If you buy these tigermen, you can appoint them to noble offices, which doesn't seem right...

(0007543) dree12 (reporter) 2010-06-01 16:33	The tigermen ARE intelligent. Maybe try removing [PET]? To me it doesn't make sense raising intelligent beings as pets. But elves are elves...

(0011408) Baughn (manager) 2010-08-02 12:18	Humans have been known to raise humans as pets. In real life, too. It isn't pretty, but it's definitely possible.

(0012753) GauHelldragon (reporter) 2010-09-17 08:34	I've caught tigermen myself and was able to tame them, without a dungeon master even. They require water to live, and will die of dehydration if you leave them in a cage. I haven't spotted one eating, but they might do that as well. They otherwise act like stray animals. I have noticed one go out and fight a wild tigerman. It managed to defeat it and gained a couple of combat skills as well.

(0015110) slink (reporter) 2011-02-15 15:40	Still here in 31.18. They die of thirst in cages, and also die of thirst at liberty. I just had one die of thirst in the meeting area. There is plenty of booze available, and also a perfectly good well. There are barrels of milk, too, but I suppose tigermen don't lap milk. ;D

(0015111) Hieronymous Alloy (reporter) 2011-02-15 21:02	Tigermen can't use wells if they're more than a tile up from the water. I suspect they're unable to lower and raise the bucket.

(0015112) Ogg the Blinky Sock (reporter) 2011-02-16 04:50	Calvin Urdimkir cancels Open Can of Tuna: interrupted by Tigerman.

(0015113) Quietust (reporter) 2011-02-16 08:02	The tigerman well problem is probably because they aren't actually using the well - they're just drinking from what they think is the shore of a pool/river.

(0015114) Kumquat (reporter) 2011-02-16 08:26	I have had a bunch of tigermen (caught with cage traps) alive and thriving in my fort a good while. They do eat - mostly meat, it would seem - and drink from the brook that runs through the walls. I had to confine them to a burrow because otherwise they usually wanted to go and drink from the leftmost spot of the brook. This may be a bug or a misfeature.

(0015115) Logical2u (manager) 2011-02-16 08:27	Is this still happening in 31.19?

(0015291) Dwarfu (manager) 2011-02-19 15:37	I haven't observed it, but the raws for tigermen still contain a [PETVALUE:x] and [PET] tag, which seemed to be the source of the problem.

(0016989) Dwarfu (manager) 2011-04-02 13:29	flieroflight reported this as still happening on the forums: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=81181.msg2140285#msg2140285 [^]

(0017158) king doom (reporter) 2011-04-07 07:41	I can confirm the elves are still filthy pointy eared slavetraders in the newest version of DF (31.25)

(0023866) Dwarfu (manager) 2013-03-03 22:26	This seems to be particular to tigermen, as they are a single entry and don't make use of the animal man creature variation. The missing tags from that variation and the GIANT one that Kumquat mentioned were previously corrected, but tigermen still have the [PET] and [PETVALUE:x] tags.

(0025884) SirPenguin (reporter) 2014-07-11 17:56	Tigermen still have the [PET] and [PETVALUE:x] tags as of 40.02