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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0004843Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Trapspublic2011-08-18 22:442015-06-14 15:27
Assigned ToFootkerchief 
PlatformPCOSWindowsOS Version7 64 bit
Product Version0.31.25 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0004843: Clothing thickness scales linearly with body size => giant creatures have insanely thick clothing
DescriptionThis might not be a but, but while I could accept leather blocking spinning iron serrated discs every once in a while, deflecting every single hit from three traps with ten discs each is a bit much. Especially when the next ogre with identical equipment is decapitated instantly.
The combat log records the discs as being deflected by variously the ogress' troll fur robe or giant spider silk cloak, but I am assuming that this is just [^] and the deflection is actually from the leather underneath.

Possibly the first deflecting causes the rest to automatically deflect as well?

This may have happened with normal weapons and goblins in traps as well; at the time I did not check what the goblin was wearing apart from the pig tail fiber cloak which apparently deflected all the hits from about six weapon traps in a row (each filled with a random assortment of weapons from previous raids).
Steps To ReproduceDoes not always happen; build trap, fill with serrated iron discs (or possibly anything) and wait for an enemy to wander into it. Every hit from the trap might be deflected.
Additional InformationVanilla DF
TagsNo tags attached.
Attached Files

- Relationships
related to 0003196confirmedFootkerchief Weapon deflections are credited to the outermost layer of armor, even if an inner layer did the work 
related to 0002633confirmedFootkerchief Elven wooden swords have same sharpness as normal wood, defeated by simple clothes 

-  Notes
ScarletTwizby (reporter)
2011-08-18 23:19

That Ogress miraculously made it past the rest of my traps and made it to my military, so I have some new information. The troll fur robe and giant spider silk cloak have successfully deflected a steel battleaxe, but they seem helpless against crushing weapons. Also, some spears attached to a trap managed to damage her lower body, but not upper body. Most disturbingly, she survived a serrated iron disc to the head with fat bruising. Here is a summary of the damage which was(n't) done to her:

To lower body:
Slicing weapons (discs, battleaxes) are all deflected
Piercing (spears) and crushing (hammers) get through as far as I can tell.

To arms, legs, and upper body:
Only crushing weapons get through

To hands and feet:
Everything works

To head and related:
About in order:
a serrated iron disc was deflected from the throat by the troll fur cloak
two serrated iron discs cut apart the fat and the skin of the head through the cave spider silk hood
a bronze mace bruised the eye through the troll fur cloak - is it wearing the cloak over its head or something?

The ogress is wearing (all of no quality):
large giant cave spider silk loincloth
large troll fur trousers
large cave spider silk tunic
large cave spider silk robe
large troll fur cloak
large goose leather cap
large cave spider silk hood
large cave spider silk gloves
large troll fur socks
large cave spider silk shoes

and various coatings of blood.

I should also probably mention that the quality of the weapons here seems irrelevant. Some of the discs were masterwork, some had no quality.
ScarletTwizby (reporter)
2011-08-20 12:35

This has continued through more sieges. I guess I just hadn't noticed before, but Ogres under some circumstances, depending on exactly what they are wearing, are completely immune to cutting attacks. Every ogre I've seen in my most recent siege has taken no damage at all from any of my traps which use cutting weapons, nor from extended battles with axedwarves ranging from skilled to great wielding exceptional or fine quality steel battle axes. The only parts of their body which are ever vulnerable are their hands and feet, and then only sometimes, with the result that I have six handless footless ogres engaged in neverending battles with my axedwarves.
UristDaVinci (reporter)
2014-07-23 19:21
edited on: 2014-07-23 19:25

DF armor volume, armor thickness, and armor weight is linearly proportional to the size of the body part on the race for which it was designed.

DF tissue thickness is proportional to the cube root of the body part size.

DF body part size is linear with the overall creature body size.

Clothing and armor was "balanced" for human-sized creatures.

Therefore, giant creatures such as ogres or the deity impersonating demons who wear clothing have super-thick clothing that is extremely heavy. This thickness exceeds the penetration amounts on the unmodded weapons - the clothing is thicker than the length of a spear or pike! The weight prevents the creatures from moving around normally unless they have high Armor User skill.

(mind you, giant creatures have questionably low carrying capacity for weight, but that is a seperate issue if at all)

EDIT: In real life if I made an armor coat for a huge person, the thickness of the armor would be the same but the surface area would be greater, so the armor volume and weight should scale with body_size^(2/3). It is all square-cube-law stuff.

ArmokGoB (reporter)
2014-07-24 04:54

I was wondering why I couldn't kill clowns with my steel spear...

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2011-08-18 22:44 ScarletTwizby New Issue
2011-08-18 23:19 ScarletTwizby Note Added: 0018576
2011-08-20 12:35 ScarletTwizby Note Added: 0018589
2011-08-20 13:44 krazykatboy Issue Monitored: krazykatboy
2014-01-26 09:35 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0003196
2014-01-26 09:42 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0002633
2014-07-23 19:21 UristDaVinci Note Added: 0027374
2014-07-23 19:25 UristDaVinci Note Edited: 0027374 View Revisions
2014-07-23 20:00 Footkerchief Summary Deflection of serrated iron discs from ogress wearing silk and leather => Clothing thickness scales linearly with body size -> giant creatures have insanely thick clothing
2014-07-23 20:00 Footkerchief Summary Clothing thickness scales linearly with body size -> giant creatures have insanely thick clothing => Clothing thickness scales linearly with body size => giant creatures have insanely thick clothing
2014-07-24 04:54 ArmokGoB Note Added: 0027397
2014-08-08 09:12 Footkerchief Assigned To => Footkerchief
2014-08-08 09:12 Footkerchief Status new => confirmed
2015-06-14 15:27 clanl Issue Monitored: clanl

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