0007863: Elf caravans don't bring seeds/cloth/booze, seldom bring grown logs

Notes
(0028411) crossmr (reporter) 2014-08-05 19:22	Seeds are currently useless anyway. Seeds from outside sources don't work. But yes, I've never seen a single caravan bringing Cloth or Alcohol either. They used to bring fruit alcohol in 34

(0029302) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-19 08:42	I'm not getting ANY wood, cloth, or leather from caravans in general. I have been getting seeds though, oddly enough. I do get loose thread, but not cloth. For some reason it seems that wooden logs and bins aren't being brought, and presumably the leather/cloth issue is due to the bins they require being made of wood. Which is odd since everyone's bringing wooden barrels of drink and such.

(0029304) Talvieno (reporter) 2014-08-19 08:44 edited on: 2014-08-19 10:59	Chaosvolt, I see cloth from the human and dwarven caravans. I don't see cloth from the elves, however, nor do I see booze. I'd like to suggest that this might possibly be related to the code that evaluates the state of your fortress and brings cloth/meat/booze accordingly. edit: Button: I doubt this is intentional/expected, as caravans never bring wood anymore at all.

(0029362) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-20 09:38 edited on: 2014-08-20 09:39	I've been getting thread from humans and dwarves, but no cloth, and no logs. And then I received an elven caravan and they lacked thread/cloth entirely, and didn't bring any booze. Still no wood either. It seems they did bring their usual buckets and wood weapons/armor though, I'm guessing grown wood is an exception to what's keeping everybody from bringing logs and bins. And also Talvieno, do you mean bins full of already-woven cloth, or loose quantities of thread? That's an important difference since they seem to bring far less thread, compared to amount of woven cloth they used to bring. EDIT: While I'm at it, still finding the issue in question in .09 so far.

(0029368) Talvieno (reporter) 2014-08-20 11:29 edited on: 2014-08-20 11:30	Chaosvolt - I mean I've seen wool/yarn cloth from the human caravans, and pigtail fiber cloth/cave spider cloth from the dwarven. As to why this is happening, let's look at what's affected: - Aboveground plant products (seeds, booze, some newer cloth items) (interestingly, underground plants seem to be exempt from this) - Wood logs Both things that have changed in the last major version - huge tree changes and huge plant changes. I'm guessing that these simply aren't being produced anymore - at least where they can be detected for trade goods - which is why we don't see them.

(0029420) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-21 11:11 edited on: 2014-08-21 11:11	Hmm, I see. But yeah, it does seem the new wood and plant changes are to blame. But like I said, I've yet to receive any BINS of cloth or leather either. Just loose thread, which has been unbinned for as long as I can recall.

(0029456) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-21 15:21	Alright, human caravan just arrived. They brought...well, THIS time I finally got bins of leather and cloth. And also Talvieno, they did bring booze. And various items made from the new plant materials, like wooden goods and plant cloth. Also brought bags of flour and seeds, including some of the new plants. They still didn't bring wood. Since I have plenty of trees but not enough breeding stock for leather, this is tolerable. I'm starting to think this isn't a consistent issue. What's available might vary somewhat. I should note that I am actually playing AS the humans via modding, and requested leather and cloth from the liaison I modded in. Maybe import requests override the bug? Except I didn't request booze, so that isn't the cause in that case. I DID demand more coal and ore, cheap bastards only broughr 1 lump of bituminous coal and 1 copper nugget. o3o

(0029471) Talvieno (reporter) 2014-08-21 23:44 edited on: 2014-08-22 08:26	interesting... In any case, it does seem like wood, at least, doesn't ever arrive. That seems to be the only thing everyone can agree on. With elven caravans, though, they really are missing a lot. Part of it might be that they don't visibly cultivate crops - at least in adventure mode - but I really don't have any way of knowing for sure.

(0029480) Calathar (reporter) 2014-08-22 08:52	I've gotten wood from both the humans and the elves. The only time I've gotten wood from the elves has been when I went a whole year without cutting any trees and the elven diplomat visited. I can't confirm that wood only arrives under those conditions, but I can confirm wood from elves (grown wood logs). I'll upload a save if I get an elven caravan with logs. I haven't seen booze from the elves (from what I remember), and I haven't seen bins of cloth.

(0029487) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-22 09:54 edited on: 2014-08-22 23:53	So someone's at least received wood? It could be that the civilizations are inconsistent in some way about calculating what resources they have access to. Then again, I'm thinking my requesting cloth and leather might've been a special case. As for the elven issue, I'm betting the "grown wood" might not yet affect logs, hence bringing grown wooden crafts/equipment but no raw wood. Since I experimented with getting playable elves working, already found out that the entity token that creates grown wood doesn't affect the embark screen.

(0029540) Calathar (reporter) 2014-08-23 14:44	Save with an elven caravan with grown wood logs: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9497 [^] Wood logs appear in both elven and human caravans. You just can't chop many trees down.

(0029541) Talvieno (reporter) 2014-08-23 14:58	Perhaps it isn't so much a bug as a major balancing issue.

(0029542) Loci (manager) 2014-08-23 15:23	All the speculation seems to have derailed this bug report. Summarizing: No one has claimed to receive seeds, cloth, or booze from an elven caravan.

(0029556) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-23 20:46	Apparently Calathar has, Loci. O.o

(0029558) Dame de la Licorne (reporter) 2014-08-24 06:47 edited on: 2014-08-24 11:01	Confirming that elves do NOT bring seeds/cloth/booze/wood in .40.09. I haven't yet received the elven diplomat in this fort, so I can't confirm/deny whether the "no trees chopped for a year" causes elves to bring wood.

(0029567) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-24 08:46	I'm likely going to have to report the additional issues I've had with dwarven and human caravans as a separate issue, then. >w>

(0029578) Calathar (reporter) 2014-08-24 10:58	Loci is right - I am not claiming to have seen seeds, cloth, or booze from an elven caravan. I have seen grown wood logs from the elven caravan however, as seen in the save above.

(0029609) Loci (manager) 2014-08-25 07:26	From an initial elven caravan in 40.09, the following categories were missing: ropes bags, and bagged merchandise (seeds, powders) barreled merchandise (alcohol) bins, and binned merchandise (cloth) thread cloth non-fruit plants

(0029619) chaosvolt (reporter) 2014-08-25 13:18	Third elven caravan in a row arrived, and like Loci I saw the same things missing. Curiously there were barrels, but only EMPTY ones. Also, they apparently arrived mostly to declare war on me, as the civ screen updated right after they arrived. And before I decided to both offer them wood AND seize whatever I wanted. o3o

(0041361) toybasher (reporter) 2022-12-25 10:45 edited on: 2022-12-25 10:50	Still an issue in 50.04. No wood (wood products are a thing tho) no booze or seeds. No cloth either. I will note clay is pretty heavy (Heavier than the average item they bring) and elves don't bring wagons. Is it possible the clay bring brought is weighing the pack animals down to the point they don't have enough extra room for other items? (Just a potential guess. I'll note they still have a decent amount of weight capacity, but I don't know how much "overhead" of extra weight capacity is needed for them to bring more items) Considering elves now don't take animal product as well as wood, trading with them is significantly less appealing than it should be, as their selection of wares is pretty lackluster.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2014-08-05 17:48	troas	New Issue
2014-08-05 19:22	crossmr	Note Added: 0028411
2014-08-19 08:42	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029302
2014-08-19 08:44	Talvieno	Note Added: 0029304
2014-08-19 10:57	Button	Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?
2014-08-19 10:59	Talvieno	Note Edited: 0029304	View Revisions
2014-08-19 10:59	Talvieno	Note Edited: 0029304	View Revisions
2014-08-20 09:38	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029362
2014-08-20 09:39	chaosvolt	Note Edited: 0029362	View Revisions
2014-08-20 09:40	chaosvolt	Tag Attached: trade
2014-08-20 10:56	chaosvolt	Issue Monitored: chaosvolt
2014-08-20 11:29	Talvieno	Note Added: 0029368
2014-08-20 11:29	Talvieno	Note Edited: 0029368	View Revisions
2014-08-20 11:29	Talvieno	Issue Monitored: Talvieno
2014-08-20 11:30	Talvieno	Note Edited: 0029368	View Revisions
2014-08-21 11:11	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029420
2014-08-21 11:11	chaosvolt	Note Edited: 0029420	View Revisions
2014-08-21 15:21	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029456
2014-08-21 23:44	Talvieno	Note Added: 0029471
2014-08-22 08:24	Rafatio	Issue Monitored: Rafatio
2014-08-22 08:26	Talvieno	Note Edited: 0029471	View Revisions
2014-08-22 08:52	Calathar	Note Added: 0029480
2014-08-22 09:54	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029487
2014-08-22 23:53	chaosvolt	Note Edited: 0029487	View Revisions
2014-08-22 23:53	chaosvolt	Note Edited: 0029487	View Revisions
2014-08-23 14:44	Calathar	Note Added: 0029540
2014-08-23 14:58	Talvieno	Note Added: 0029541
2014-08-23 15:23	Loci	Note Added: 0029542
2014-08-23 20:46	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029556
2014-08-24 06:47	Dame de la Licorne	Note Added: 0029558
2014-08-24 07:09	Footkerchief	Summary	Elf caravans do not bring seeds or cloth => Elf caravans don't bring seeds/cloth/booze, seldom bring grown logs
2014-08-24 07:21	Footkerchief	Status	new => confirmed
2014-08-24 08:46	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029567
2014-08-24 09:45	lethosor	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-08-24 10:58	Calathar	Note Added: 0029578
2014-08-24 11:01	Dame de la Licorne	Note Edited: 0029558	View Revisions
2014-08-25 07:26	Loci	Note Added: 0029609
2014-08-25 13:18	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0029619
2014-08-26 09:53	Button	Issue Monitored: Button
2022-12-25 10:45	toybasher	Note Added: 0041361
2022-12-25 10:46	toybasher	Note Edited: 0041361	View Revisions
2022-12-25 10:47	toybasher	Note Edited: 0041361	View Revisions
2022-12-25 10:50	toybasher	Note Edited: 0041361	View Revisions

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