Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0010648Dwarf FortressProjectilespublic2018-03-19 22:472018-03-20 17:20
Reporterchaosvolt 
Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityhave not tried
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0010648: Wooden blowdarts unable to break skin, rendering LAYER_LINKED applied venom moot
DescriptionWooden blowdarts are generally only able to inflict harm bi piercing the skin to inject venom, which LAYER_LINKED civilizations apply to their ammunition.

Needless to say, these venoms don't work if the darts only inflict bruises on the target. Even a naked target will generally be affected by this.
Steps To Reproduce1. Obtain a blowgun and wooden blowdarts.
2. Fire at wildlife, naked humans, whatever.
Additional InformationI tinkered around with several ways this could be fixed, some better than others.

Tweaking the shoot force or max velocity does NOT seem to work unless you have a solid grasp on the exact physics. There is a fine line between darts being ineffectual as usual and becoming bone-snapping death machines. I've yet to find any middle group.

Editing shear values has yet to be tested, and in most cases it risks affecting other instances that perform more in line with expectations.

I've had the best luck editing the MAX_EDGE, for example from 1000 to 2000. Darts are one of those rare cases where the shear values are juuuust right such that a tweak to max edge actually has much effect. With it, wooden blowgun darts tend to more relibly break the skin against wildlife and dwarves.

While it's still not as much use on armor, and clothing can sometimes reduce its effectiveness, but that's probably for the best. It's still capable of occasionally breaking the skin for clothed targets, when its wielders likely had wildlife or their fellow (naked) cavern tribes in mind anyway.
Tagsblowgun, ranged, raw tweak, venom
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Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2018-03-19 22:47chaosvoltNew Issue
2018-03-19 22:51chaosvoltTag Attached: ranged
2018-03-19 22:51chaosvoltTag Attached: raw tweak
2018-03-19 22:51chaosvoltTag Attached: venom
2018-03-19 22:51chaosvoltTag Attached: blowgun
2018-03-20 01:52FantasticDorfNote Added: 0037978
2018-03-20 09:43chaosvoltNote Added: 0037980
2018-03-20 11:12FantasticDorfNote Added: 0037981
2018-03-20 13:09chaosvoltNote Added: 0037982
2018-03-20 14:11FantasticDorfNote Added: 0037983
2018-03-20 17:20chaosvoltNote Added: 0037984

Notes
(0037978)
FantasticDorf   
2018-03-20 01:52   
Blowdarts have exceptional velocity values as standard ontop of their extremely narrow impact area, in arena mode a adamantine blowdart can blow straight through a dwarf wearing steel armor as a projectile extremely suited to the task rupturing organs along the way.

Wood being unable to penetrate skin and deliver whatever contact poisons are on it are extremely disappointing then.

Bones could be a viable alternative as ammunition, but according to discussions with @Putnam (below code alteration completely attributed to them, a copy paste from a discussion) the elasticity would be wrong and versus obsidian which shatters on contact most of the time with metal, bone is reportedly potent enough to wear down copper armor in its current form.

[IMPACT_YIELD:200000] [IMPACT_FRACTURE:200000] [IMPACT_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:500]
[COMPRESSIVE_YIELD:200000] [COMPRESSIVE_FRACTURE:200000][COMPRESSIVE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:500] //40
    
[TENSILE_YIELD:115000] [TENSILE_FRACTURE:130000] [TENSILE_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:575] //20
    
[TORSION_YIELD:115000] [TORSION_FRACTURE:130000] [TORSION_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1643]

[SHEAR_YIELD:115000] used 'bone (limb)' from wikipedia tensile strength
[SHEAR_FRACTURE:130000] [SHEAR_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:1643] //7
    
[BENDING_YIELD:115000] [BENDING_FRACTURE:130000] [BENDING_STRAIN_AT_YIELD:575]
(0037980)
chaosvolt   
2018-03-20 09:43   
That kinda doesn't help the issue because worldgen never uses bone ammo, and in vanilla blowdarts are exclusively used by the resident cave furries.
(0037981)
FantasticDorf   
2018-03-20 11:12   
Addressing the issue may initiate a change, if wood darts are made redundant then bone is a suitable material within accessible scope to take its place, despite subterranean civ's [USE_WOOD_WEAPONS] tag.
(0037982)
chaosvolt   
2018-03-20 13:09   
True. One can hope. That said, this issue is fairly easy to fix via modding too.
(0037983)
FantasticDorf   
2018-03-20 14:11   
[USE_WOOD_WEAPONS] in itself is a large problem though, unless your summary possible mod-solution is to remove that tag and add metalworking, because they won't bring alternative materials to attack (figuratively speaking, subterranean civs cant.) or when they appear in your area.
(0037984)
chaosvolt   
2018-03-20 17:20   
If you give them the capacity to work metals in addition to USE_WOOD_WEAPONS, they'll use a mix of wood and whatever metals are available, actually. I found that out with Kobold Kamp when working out how to make them embark and trade with native copper and native silver weapons.

Even better, if you give them a reaction that produces a metal in the smelter (like how steel making is set up), they'll have that material available even if they DON'T have the tokens needed to access metal.

The catch is this material needs IS_METAL at a bare minimum, along with any other relevant usage tokens. But this means you can, for example, give this material ITEMS_WEAPON and ITEMS_AMMO only and they'll still use wood exclusively for ranged weapons, shields, and such.