Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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0002115Dwarf FortressCombat -- Wrestlingpublic2010-05-31 15:462016-05-16 16:13
Toady One 
0002115: Broken bones cause too much pain regardless of size
If your "superhumanly" tough adventurer gets a broken arm from a joint lock he somehow passes out about 9 times and can bleed to death.
adventure mode, bones, chipped, combat, fractured, lock, pain, PAIN_RECEPTORS, Probable Quick Fix, wound
related to 0000033resolved Toady One Bronze colossus, skeletal creatures, fleshballs, and others are impossible to kill 
has duplicate 0005219resolved Footkerchief Possible Bug: Useless Willpower 
has duplicate 0006892resolved Footkerchief Bone pain vs all other pain 
related to 0004590resolved Toady One Elephant killed by three hoary marmots - Issue with pain 
Issue History
2010-05-31 15:46toybasherNew Issue
2010-06-01 11:39toybasherTag Attached: pain
2010-06-06 10:32toybasherTag Attached: lock
2010-06-13 22:11FootkerchiefNote Added: 0008381
2010-06-13 22:11FootkerchiefTag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2010-06-16 13:06toybasherNote Added: 0008568
2010-06-16 13:24FootkerchiefNote Added: 0008570
2010-06-16 13:24FootkerchiefTag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2010-06-16 13:24FootkerchiefStatusnew => resolved
2010-06-16 13:24FootkerchiefResolutionopen => no change required
2010-06-16 13:24FootkerchiefAssigned To => Footkerchief
2010-06-26 18:13toybasherNote Added: 0009151
2010-06-26 18:13toybasherStatusresolved => needs feedback
2010-06-26 18:13toybasherResolutionno change required => reopened
2010-06-27 19:51FootkerchiefNote Added: 0009186
2010-06-27 19:51FootkerchiefStatusneeds feedback => resolved
2010-06-27 19:51FootkerchiefResolutionreopened => no change required
2010-07-10 20:42toybasherNote Added: 0009899
2010-07-10 20:42toybasherStatusresolved => needs feedback
2010-07-10 20:42toybasherResolutionno change required => reopened
2010-07-11 00:54FootkerchiefNote Added: 0009922
2010-07-11 02:01Village IdiotNote Added: 0009924
2010-07-11 02:55hyndisNote Added: 0009926
2010-07-11 05:27toybasherNote Added: 0009928
2010-07-11 05:27toybasherStatusneeds feedback => assigned
2010-07-11 06:45toybasherTag Attached: chipped
2010-07-11 10:29FootkerchiefNote Added: 0009942
2010-07-11 14:47toybasherNote Added: 0009962
2010-07-11 16:52FootkerchiefNote Added: 0009975
2010-07-11 16:53FootkerchiefAssigned ToFootkerchief =>
2010-07-11 16:53FootkerchiefStatusassigned => new
2010-07-11 16:53FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0009975bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009975#r3843
2010-07-11 16:57toybasherNote Added: 0009977
2010-07-11 17:01FootkerchiefNote Added: 0009980
2010-07-11 17:02FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0009980bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009980#r3849
2010-07-11 17:02FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0009980bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009980#r3850
2010-07-11 17:09FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0009980bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009980#r3854
2010-07-11 17:15toybasherNote Added: 0009984
2010-07-11 17:17smjjamesNote Added: 0009986
2010-07-11 17:19shibdibNote Added: 0009988
2010-07-11 19:14FootkerchiefNote Added: 0009998
2010-07-12 10:53FootkerchiefNote Added: 0010049
2010-07-13 22:19FootkerchiefNote Added: 0010214
2010-07-13 22:19FootkerchiefStatusnew => resolved
2010-07-13 22:19FootkerchiefResolutionreopened => unable to reproduce
2010-07-13 22:19FootkerchiefAssigned To => Footkerchief
2010-08-01 12:24toybasherNote Added: 0011362
2010-08-01 12:24toybasherStatusresolved => needs feedback
2010-08-01 12:24toybasherResolutionunable to reproduce => reopened
2010-08-01 12:40toybasherNote Added: 0011363
2010-08-01 12:40toybasherStatusneeds feedback => assigned
2010-08-01 13:13FootkerchiefAssigned ToFootkerchief =>
2010-08-01 13:13FootkerchiefStatusassigned => new
2010-08-01 13:13FootkerchiefResolutionreopened => open
2010-08-09 15:49toybasherIssue Monitored: toybasher
2010-08-30 07:42toybasherNote Added: 0012261
2010-11-12 16:08toybasherNote Added: 0013721
2010-11-12 16:19toybasherTag Attached: bones
2010-11-14 07:58toybasherNote Added: 0013823
2010-11-14 08:19toybasherTag Attached: wound
2010-11-14 08:55toybasherNote Edited: 0013823bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0013823#r5330
2010-11-14 17:22toybasherNote Added: 0013841
2010-11-15 05:38MurphyNote Added: 0013867
2010-11-15 11:27toybasherNote Added: 0013881
2010-11-15 13:27FootkerchiefSummaryBroken limbs cause too much pain. => Broken limbs cause too much pain, bone tissue has too many PAIN_RECEPTORS?
2010-11-15 14:27PirateNote Added: 0013894
2010-11-16 15:07toybasherNote Added: 0013935
2010-11-19 07:14Orkel2Note Added: 0014015
2010-11-21 11:42toybasherTag Attached: PAIN_RECEPTORS
2010-11-21 11:42toybasherTag Attached: combat
2010-11-21 17:15toybasherTag Attached: adventure mode
2010-11-21 17:24toybasherNote Added: 0014126
2010-11-21 20:40FootkerchiefNote Added: 0014128
2010-11-22 03:07MrWigglesNote Added: 0014135
2010-11-23 09:29toybasherNote Added: 0014177
2010-11-25 09:02toybasherNote Added: 0014209
2010-11-25 13:58toybasherTag Attached: fractured
2010-11-26 09:44toybasherNote Added: 0014227
2010-11-26 17:46Jiri PetruNote Added: 0014234
2010-11-26 17:47Jiri PetruNote Edited: 0014234bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0014234#r5426
2010-11-27 08:24toybasherNote Added: 0014241
2010-11-27 08:45toybasherNote Edited: 0014241bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0014241#r5428
2010-11-27 13:46SfonNote Added: 0014250
2010-11-27 17:40NarmioNote Added: 0014263
2010-11-28 14:48toybasherNote Added: 0014278
2010-12-10 15:59toybasherNote Added: 0014506
2011-03-10 03:58toybasherNote Added: 0016041
2011-04-03 14:14FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0000033
2011-04-29 07:33Logical2uRelationship addedchild of 0004590
2011-04-29 07:35Logical2uNote Added: 0017571
2011-04-29 07:35Logical2uNote Edited: 0017571bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0017571#r6534
2011-07-15 07:36theothersteve7Note Added: 0018246
2011-07-15 07:37theothersteve7Note Edited: 0018246bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018246#r6822
2012-02-17 10:26FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0005219
2012-02-17 10:26FootkerchiefSummaryBroken limbs cause too much pain, bone tissue has too many PAIN_RECEPTORS? => Broken bones cause too much pain, bone tissue has too many PAIN_RECEPTORS?
2012-02-17 12:08CheesoburgorNote Added: 0019951
2012-02-17 12:09CheesoburgorNote Edited: 0019951bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0019951#r7460
2012-02-17 12:09CheesoburgorNote Edited: 0019951bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0019951#r7461
2012-02-17 12:21EnigmaticHatNote Added: 0019954
2012-03-23 14:12FootkerchiefRelationship replacedrelated to 0004590
2012-06-06 08:30FootkerchiefSummaryBroken bones cause too much pain, bone tissue has too many PAIN_RECEPTORS? => Broken bones cause too much pain regardless of size
2012-06-06 13:00sandwichNote Added: 0022878
2012-07-04 15:03toybasherNote Added: 0023151
2012-07-09 08:18toybasherNote Deleted: 0013721
2014-07-09 17:06FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0006892
2014-07-09 17:17XangiNote Added: 0025420
2014-07-09 20:05BloaxNote Added: 0025459
2014-07-09 20:10woruzIssue Monitored: woruz
2014-07-09 20:14ArmokGoBNote Added: 0025462
2014-07-09 20:15ArmokGoBNote Edited: 0025462bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0025462#r9500
2014-07-10 05:36BloaxNote Edited: 0025459bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0025459#r9516
2014-07-10 10:25ArmokGoBTag Attached: Probable Quick Fix
2014-07-10 10:25ArmokGoBNote Deleted: 0025462
2014-07-10 10:26ArmokGoBNote Added: 0025555
2014-07-11 11:37JasonMelNote Added: 0025809
2014-07-11 11:46FootkerchiefNote Added: 0025812
2014-07-11 11:47FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0025812bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0025812#r9613
2014-07-11 11:50FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0025812bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0025812#r9614
2014-07-13 20:49JasonMelNote Added: 0026265
2014-07-13 20:55FootkerchiefTag Detached: Probable Quick Fix
2014-07-13 20:56FootkerchiefNote Added: 0026266
2014-07-19 20:52maxcat61Note Added: 0026989
2014-07-26 07:50ArmokGoBNote Added: 0027604
2014-07-26 08:16FootkerchiefTag Attached: Probable Quick Fix
2014-08-13 13:37FootkerchiefAssigned To => Footkerchief
2014-08-13 13:37FootkerchiefStatusnew => confirmed
2014-12-27 19:32FootkerchiefRelationship replacedhas duplicate 0005219
2016-05-16 16:13Toady OneNote Added: 0035196
2016-05-16 16:13Toady OneStatusconfirmed => resolved
2016-05-16 16:13Toady OneFixed in Version => Next Version
2016-05-16 16:13Toady OneResolutionopen => fixed
2016-05-16 16:13Toady OneAssigned ToFootkerchief => Toady One

2010-06-13 22:11   
Passing out from a broken arm seems pretty reasonable. What other wounds did he have?
2010-06-16 13:06   
Thats it,

I can understand it fi he was normal, but it was just a "Shattered" arm and he was "Superhumanly tough"
2010-06-16 13:24   
Yeah, I'm not convinced. It's not self-evident that "superhumanly tough" should let you shrug off shattered bones. This is a minor balance issue at best, and you already made a suggestion for it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=56054.0 [^]), so I'm closing the report.
2010-06-26 18:13   
I would like to try and reopen this with a few statements, this happens from other minor injuries too, like bruised guts, and a still have trouble thinking a "shattered" finger would cause a "Superhumanly" character to pass out MULTIABLE TIMES! I mean up to NINE TIMES from a broken FINGER.
2010-06-27 19:51   
Don't get confused by the crappy terminology -- "bruised" guts can mean anything from "bruised" to "crushed into jelly." A "shattered" finger could likewise be completely crushed. Seriously, tweaks of this kind are NOT BUGS.
2010-07-10 20:42   
Well if that was so, why did my newly created adventurer suffer a "chipped" leg bone from an arrow and actually passed out (I counted) 7 times, and right when he woke up a swordsman came along and killed him. (he probually would have passed out more if he didnt die)

First of all, I understand a chipped bone could cause passing out, but not SEVERAL TIMES. maybe once, maybe even thrice, but a "superhumanly tough" adventurer shouldnt pass out SEVEN times from a "chipped" leg
2010-07-11 00:54   
Okay. Do you have a save? http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]
Village Idiot   
2010-07-11 02:01   
Why do people think "shattered" is some minor injury? It's the hard piece in your finger/arm which is completely destroyed, of course it's going to hurt! without treatment, any normal person wouldn't wake up at all after passing out. Also, why are people complaining about adventurers waking up? they are superhumanly though, without it the would be killed by that swordsman while unconscious.
2010-07-11 02:55   
A shattered limb that was being twisted further would be utterly agonizing. It would drop anyone due to the massive amount of pain.

Only a person loaded up on crack or PCP would be able to ignore that magnitude of pain.
2010-07-11 05:27   
well currently "shattered" is how the game calls a simply broken bone, I mean they can be currently bruised. fractured, "Shattered" (shattered seems to be just how the game counts a bnroken bone "His right leg is broken")

It just dosnt make ANY sense why he passes out about 7 times, and most of the time when he wakes up the first time he gets hurt even more, thus making him pass out LONGER then seven times.
2010-07-11 10:29   
It just dosnt make ANY sense why he passes out about 7 times, and most of the time when he wakes up the first time he gets hurt even more, thus making him pass out LONGER then seven times.

It turns out that getting beat up hurts IRL. Do you have a save or not?
2010-07-11 14:47   
Well, LOSING LIMBS hurts LESS then "chipping" bones, somethings not right here.
2010-07-11 16:52   
(edited on: 2010-07-11 16:53)
Upload a save, please.

2010-07-11 16:57   
Just wondering how a save could help you, just made an adventurer and start attacking once you start and go on a rampage and hope a hammerman comes along and try and let him hit you, if it shatters the bone you will pass out several times, then you should die, do it again, this time with a ranger and hope you get a "chipped" bone, you should pass out several times again, do it one last time with a swordsman and let him hack your arm off, you should pass out only twice or so.
2010-07-11 17:01   
(edited on: 2010-07-11 17:09)
Just wondering how a save could help you, just made an adventurer and start attacking once you start and go on a rampage and hope a hammerman comes along and try and let him hit you, if it shatters the bone you will pass out several times, then you should die, do it again, this time with a ranger and hope you get a "chipped" bone, you should pass out several times again, do it one last time with a swordsman and let him hack your arm off, you should pass out only twice or so.

To work on this problem, Toady needs to see it happening ingame. The method you described takes time and will not reliably result in an adventurer passing out from pain. That may seem inconsequential, but Toady has thousands of bugs to look at, and that time really adds up.

If it's as easy to reproduce as you say, it should be easy for you to upload a save. I'm not sure why you're being stubborn about this, given the amount of time you've spent on this report already. http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]

2010-07-11 17:15   
I wish I knew how to quote here but this is EXTREMELY easy to reproduce, you dont even need do be attacked! (this method is even better as when you go into the passing out fit you wont die and have the fit ended prematurely)

Just find a good 3 z-level drop and make your adventurer fling himself off of it. keep doing this untill one bone counts as "broken" in the description page.

Hell, you could even easily do this in arena, make two humans, controll one and do a joint lock on the other's limb (I perfer arms) and try and break it, then run away and drop magma and water on the joint-breaker to kill him, Now try and controll the human who had his leg broken and count how many times he passes out.
2010-07-11 17:17   
You'd also have to take into account the toughness though.

There is no quoting function for the notes on the bug tracker ubfortunately.
2010-07-11 17:19   
let me take a baseball bat and chip one of ur bones.. tell me it doesnt hurt
2010-07-11 19:14   
this is EXTREMELY easy to reproduce, you dont even need do be attacked! (this method is even better as when you go into the passing out fit you wont die and have the fit ended prematurely)

Did you miss what I said about how Toady will have to spend time doing that? Time he could spend working on other bugs instead? What objection do you have to uploading a save?
2010-07-12 10:53   
Reminder sent to: toybasher

Do you have a save yet? http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]
2010-07-13 22:19   
Feel free to reopen this once you've uploaded a save to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]
2010-08-01 12:24   
Uploading a save right now, just need to find a way to break a bone without involving combat so You can see how many times the "superhumanly" adv passes out.
2010-08-01 12:40   
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2874 [^]
2010-08-30 07:42   
and of course my last thing is how they pass out SO MANY TIMES.

A friend of mine broke his toe and he was in a fit of agony but didnt pass out.

like if a adventurer who "shattered" his leg passed out for lets say a long time then woke up I would be fine with this, but here instead of a single long passed out period its a long period of being passed out composed of a bunch of short pass outs and wake ups.

Like It should be one LONG passout that lasts 30 turns or something instead of 6 pass outs that last 5 turns each.
2010-11-14 07:58   
(edited on: 2010-11-14 08:55)
And sorry for the bump but I did more testing in ADV mode

A "Superhuman" human can get limbs chopped off and not suffer ANY pain at all (actually minor pain in the health screen but not enough to cause the little yellow "PAIN" sign to come up)

I had him lose a few limbs and he practibly suffered NO pain yet once he broke a rib he instantly passed out about 7 times and died.

Edit: appearently the "Willpower" stat effects pain too, I made both superhuman (willpower and toughness) and I got hit in the rib by a crossbow bolt and still passed out 4 times before he ran up to me (was busy fighting my teammates) amd impaled me through the brain with another bolt.
By the time I woke up one turn away from getting killed I still had "EXTREME PAIN"

Broken bones are causing WAAAAAAY too much pain currently, It makes no sense how a broken rib or finger can cause a "Superhuman" human into passing out this many times yet with a hacked off arm its "Hahahah, that tickled! Didnt feel a thing!" but a broken rib or finger or whatever is more like "AHHHHHHHHHHH IT FEELS LIKE SOMEONE POURED ACID ON ME! IT BURNS!" This ends up unbalancing combat quite a bit.

Either pain alltogether needs to be amped up or bone fracture pain needs to be toned down a bit, it makes no sense for a human to lose arms and be perfectly fine with no pain whatsoever yet once he cracks a rib he instantly faints.

2010-11-14 17:22   
Can someone please get back to me on this issue? Its even more easy to do on ADV mode as you can give yourself attributes

Honest, a superhumanly tough with super willpowered human can get arms lopped off and not even get the yellow PAIN sign

I am NOT making this up either, try it yourself.
Yet once he breaks a finger he instantly goes into EXTREME PAIN and passes out several dozen times.

How is this not a bug? Why does breaking a finger hurt extremely bad for my adventurers yet a lopped off arm tickles to him? How does that make sense at all?
2010-11-15 05:38   
It's because bone tissue has [PAIN_RECEPTORS:50] while everything else has either 5 or none. Fixable by a single raw edit.
2010-11-15 11:27   
Thats what I mean, its just plain annoying for my superhuman advs to shrug off missing limbs yet a single broken rib pretty much makes them pass out 8 times, it should at least be toned down so a broken bone only hurts as much as a severed limb, or something around that.
2010-11-15 14:27   
Breaking a bone itself shouldn't make a hero pass out. trying to use a broken limb or getting hit in it again is something completly different, and this should be extremely painful.
2010-11-16 15:07   
Pirate, my point, but its a superhuman, and its just stupid, why the heck does losing BOTH ARMS AND A FOOT hurt LESS then cracking a rib? WHy is losing 3 limbs causing minor pain for my superhuman when a cracked rib is agonizing for him?

Its just weird, he should be able to shrug off both, this ends up making maces and hamemr OP as one cracked rib is enough to keep a superhuman out for at least 4 pass outs, MORE then enough time to cave their head in
2010-11-19 07:14   
I can confirm this happening, it's a major combat balance breaker. Should be fixed asap, don't you think.
2010-11-21 17:24   
This isn't limited to adventure mode either.

Makes combat a HUGE pain. (No pun intended)

Needs to be at least bumped up in severity, I think bone tissue should be dropped in pain receptor value.
2010-11-21 20:40   
As I told you before (0000723:0006730), the severity field doesn't matter. Toady doesn't find it useful.
2010-11-22 03:07   
Curious, does DF treat bone pain the same no matter what the bone is? The broken finger causing someone to pass out does, seem to be extreme.
2010-11-23 09:29   
Yes, it's the bone tissue that has PAIN_RECEPTORS so all that matters is its at least "Factured", once that happens even "SUperhumanly tough with superhuman willpower" creatures wll pass out about 3 or so times, even though they just broke a toe, yet they can lose entire limbs and be fine.
2010-11-25 09:02   
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=71592.0 [^]

This should help a bit
2010-11-26 09:44   
Happened again, passed out 9 times as a superhuman adv from a broken leg. needs to be fixed ASAP, its friggen annoying as all **** and unbalances combat with aimed attacks as the fingers are easist to break.

is just retarded, why can you lose limbs and be fine yet a broken limb makes you pass out? severing measn its torn completely off! I understand superhumans able to shrug it off but Im talking a broken toe hurting WORSE!
Jiri Petru   
2010-11-26 17:46   
(edited on: 2010-11-26 17:47)
Perhaps this while report should be closed and instead replaced by something akin: "Pain doesn't respect the size of the injured bodypart" with a link to the above topic?

The more I read about it, the more I'm convinced it's not in issue of bone sensitivity (shattering a large bone should hurt like hell) as much as an issue of small wounds causing too much pain.

2010-11-27 08:24   
(edited on: 2010-11-27 08:45)
That doesn't explain SUPERHUMANS able to shrug off missing limbs yet a broken leg instantly knocking themm out many times.

I mean if your tough enough to the point that you dont even suffer minor pain from a torn off leg I cant see why you cant shrug off shattered bones

2010-11-27 13:46   
Pain receptors are unbalanced in the raws. Bone has 50 while everything else has 5. The result is this nice, complex system breaking down to little more than a binary "broken bone yes/no?"

Making it worse is that cutting parts off does not cause meaningful pain. Since chipped bone = pass out, this seems like an internal bug rather than a raw issue. As if it is not counting severing as significantly damaging tissues in regards to pain, leading to frequent Monty Python-esque combat. I tried reproducing this in the arena, but the victim died quickly from blood loss which I have never seen happen in adventure mode.

Breaking a bone is painful, yes, but so is tripping over an assortment of your own intestines and severed limbs.
2010-11-27 17:40   
[i]That doesn't explain SUPERHUMANS able to shrug off missing limbs yet a broken leg instantly knocking them out many times.[/i]
This is a separate bug. Missing limbs do not have their effects well modelled right now as there is no tissue left to be damaged. Losing, say, a lower arm should also create a serious wound in your upper arm - including extensive bone damage, to reflect the fact that your lower arm is GONE! However, currently, the sever happens perfectly cleanly and, since there is no damaged tissue attached to the body, nothing but bleeding happens.

What I'm saying is that yes, the pain receptors in bones do need to be looked at, including respecting both the size of the part and how it is being used. However, comparing pain from broken bones to pain from severs is not useful, because severs have their own largely unrelated problems.
2010-11-28 14:48   
and more importantly lets get technical here

If you severed your arm, the entire tissue is destroyed, this means you need to cut through the bone in order to sever it,

So a broken bone causes EXTREME PAIN

but a sever IRL also means the bone is destroyed, why does that cause little pain.
2010-12-10 15:59   
Its not broken limbs that cause too much pain, its ALL bones period.
2011-03-10 03:58   
More testing, even with the highest stats possible a creature who breaks a bone will ALWAYS pass out about 4 times, doesnt matter which bone is broken either, (a broken leg hurts just as much as a broken rib or finger)
Needs to be fixed, unbalances combat and is just a pain in the rear end when your superhuman adventruer dies cause he broke a finger and passed out.

ANd like i said so many times, severs hurt LESS then broken bones, how does this make any sense? I would imagine if i broke my shoulder, or had it torn off im sure having it painfully ripped off would hurt MUCH more then a cracked bone.

And that brings us to problem two, even fractured bones cause this problem, not nessceserily shattered. We need to find a proper pain receptor value for bone, perhaps one that causes less pain, yet still causes a good amount of pain of several bones are broken?

Its not as noticeable in fortress mode as you have a army, but in adventure mode its EXTREMELY obivous, one arrow to a rib and your out like a light.

Can we bring this up to Toady? Thanks.
2011-04-29 07:35   
0004590 is probably a parent of this one - it may just be that there are too many pain receptors in general, and broken bones are just a great way of showing it off.

2011-07-15 07:36   
(edited on: 2011-07-15 07:37)
From a balance standpoint I'd say upping pain from muscle damage, etc., relative to bone damage makes more sense than leaving as is. It seems any broken bones pretty much disable any combatant, while having your fat melted from your body and legs severed at the hips only impedes your running speed and makes you skinny. So relatively speaking, this is a bug.

As injuries go, broken fingers and whatnot vary a lot but frequently people don't even realize that bones are broken when they get hurt, especially small fractures. Obviously a shattered femur is different than a cracked ring finger. You could totally mangle a finger and I really doubt anyone would pass out, especially with the adrenaline of combat. Humans (or dwarves in this case) are tougher than people give them credit for.

2012-02-17 12:08   
(edited on: 2012-02-17 12:09)
i think its ok if you pass out many times because wrestlers are pretty ineffective if you ask me but i still think that the superhuman tough should not pass out 7 times

2012-02-17 12:21   
Just so we're clear, dealing with pain is influenced by your willpower stat, toughness merely lets you resist damage. Your "superhuman" adventurers probably don't have any better willpower than an average human, unless you raised that stat.
2012-06-06 13:00   
i had a human adventurer , he was not a superhuman. when i got in a combat with hamerer , he shatered my left lower arm and right lower arm bones , i didnt pass out . i throwed my cave spider silk shoe and it somehow shatered hamerers upper spine . after that i could crawl about 10 squares and not passing out but then i got shot in head and died.
and i were not a vampire or were-beast.
2012-07-04 15:03   
I made a few adventurers with superhuman willpower, and they still suffer from passing out several times when bones are broken. It also happens in fortress mode but its harder to notice because of how quick time passes.

Replying to theothersteve7 you are also correct with other tissues having "Not enough" pain receptors. Infact, I can't even think of times my adventurer has suffered much pain, besides from the damaged bones outlined above.

 A good solution would be to up the pain effects of other tissue damage while also increasing the effects of the willpower stat. I can't notice much of a difference between bone breaks with adventurers from superhuman willpower to the smallest amount possible (forgot the stat descriptor)
2014-07-09 17:17   
So basically 40.xx made this a thousand times worse. The new pulping essentially means that a single pulped finger will knock you out regardless of your previous condition, and there appears to have been a pain rework which makes all other bone damage knock you out with alarming regularity.

This really needs a fix. I've made a personal one here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ohpogozse5pqy74/tissue_template_default.txt [^]) but frankly I'd rather see an official one.
2014-07-09 20:05   
(edited on: 2014-07-10 05:36)
The status quo is that hitting any kind of bone with a bow shot results in an instant passout on the receiving end of the arrow.

That's not a very good status quo if you consider how ranged weapons are also substantially faster to fire now. (They don't spontaneously murder you by letting the enemies have untold amounts of turns for free now.)

edit: botched up that initial sentence

2014-07-10 10:26   
Tagged as "Probable Quick Fix" because fix can be accomplished by simple editing of the raws.
2014-07-11 11:37   
I don't think this needs as radical a change as many people seem to think, maybe even none.

Extreme agony makes it difficult to do things, especially things which require physical effort. It seems to me that multiple brief instances of "passing out" is a good way of approximating this effect. I find no justification for the above quote, "It should be one LONG passout that lasts 30 turns or something instead of 6 pass outs that last 5 turns each." In many cases, collecting all brief passouts into one contiguous stretch would be less realistic, not more. The point is to realize how long the period or periods of unconsciousness last, and ask whether it's a reasonable approximation of the incapacitating effect of extreme agony. Remember, sufferers in dire situations almost always do get back up and try again. Instead of decrying the number of passouts, a fairly arbitrary statistic, you could marvel at the fact that they soldier on at all.

After all, there's a very good reason why the agony of a damaged bone should be more incapacitating than, say, a grievous flesh wound. Trying to engage in everyday activity, let alone combat, with broken bones could cause the injured person to tear their body apart from the inside.
2014-07-11 11:46   
(edited on: 2014-07-11 11:50)
Yeah, but even tiny bone chips currently cause a gigantic amount of pain. There should be such a thing as minor, grazing bone wounds.

2014-07-13 20:49   
That's reasonable, but I worry that the "quick fix" of lowering the number of pain receptors will throw the baby out with the bath water.
2014-07-13 20:56   
I agree. I'm not convinced this problem is confined to the raws. I've removed the "Probable Quick Fix" tag.
2014-07-19 20:52   
This may be redundant, but I am playing fortress mode on 40.03, and broken limbs are putting my dwarves into comas. They are perpetually unconscious from broken fingers and toes, and it is quite irritating, though slightly amusing. They do wake up, however, if they are drowning.
2014-07-26 07:50   
If other types of tissue were causing these problems, I'd agree with "throwing the baby out with the bath water", but only bones are causing this problem. I fail to see what good is going to be gotten rid of or other problem missed by simply lowering the number of pain receptors in the bones. Also, coming from someone who practices their swordsmanship, I'd argue that getting a deep cut is much more painful than getting certain bones fractured or chipped.
Toady One   
2016-05-16 16:13   
I adjusted some calculations based on relative size of the part for now. There's more to do, but this should stop the trouble with toes while still leaving the basic mechanic in for multiple broken limbs etc.