Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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0000782Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Noblespublic2010-04-08 01:552012-02-26 11:53
Toady One 
0000782: [SPOILERS] Mayor mandates items of HFS material
My mayor recently demanded items made of slade, which are as far as I know impossible to create normally. The dwarf in question also has slade as one of his preferences.
No tags attached.
has duplicate 0002227resolved Footkerchief Slade mandates 
related to 0007590resolved Toady One [SPOILERS] Mayor demands items of new HFS material (shiny, frosty, etc metal) 
child of 0000823resolved Toady One "Native" ores use METAL_TEMPLATE, can supposedly be used for "sharp blades" and studding (doesn't work) 
Issue History
2010-04-08 01:55HundredNew Issue
2010-04-08 02:02FootkerchiefSummaryMayor mandates slade items. => [SPOILERS] Mayor mandates items of HFS material
2010-04-09 13:42CyberGenesisNote Added: 0002417
2010-04-09 13:46anomalyNote Added: 0002418
2010-04-09 13:47anomalyNote Edited: 0002418bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0002418#r756
2010-04-09 15:02resonancefactorNote Added: 0002434
2010-04-09 19:23anomalyNote Added: 0002490
2010-04-09 19:25JimmyNote Added: 0002492
2010-04-09 20:27DoctorZuberNote Added: 0002498
2010-04-10 13:36ShadowlordNote Added: 0002638
2010-04-10 14:13ZasNote Added: 0002643
2010-04-10 16:51KagusNote Added: 0002676
2010-04-11 23:09ShadowlordNote Added: 0002987
2010-04-12 12:55HundredNote Added: 0003115
2010-04-16 11:16smjjamesNote Added: 0003875
2010-04-16 12:30KagusNote Added: 0003885
2010-04-16 12:54smjjamesNote Added: 0003890
2010-04-16 13:18smjjamesNote Deleted: 0003890
2010-04-18 13:37CultOftheRavenNote Added: 0004102
2010-04-18 15:31maximusfiveIssue Monitored: maximusfive
2010-05-02 22:54Spiders EverywhereNote Added: 0005973
2010-05-15 21:20Logical2uRelationship addedparent of 0001887
2010-05-16 00:34FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0001817
2010-05-22 17:13dark0153Note Added: 0007206
2010-05-22 18:53MrWigglesNote Added: 0007209
2010-06-09 12:51FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0002227
2010-06-11 19:12Khym ChanurIssue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-09-02 12:48QuietustNote Added: 0012358
2010-09-02 12:49QuietustNote Edited: 0012358bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0012358#r4808
2010-09-02 15:26hyndisNote Added: 0012362
2010-11-21 12:37FootkerchiefNote Added: 0014114
2010-11-21 12:37FootkerchiefTag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-02-05 00:07DrikonNote Added: 0014995
2011-02-05 08:02DwarfuNote Added: 0014997
2011-04-25 03:11AlumineNote Added: 0017504
2011-10-13 09:59QuietustNote Added: 0018796
2011-10-15 09:22DwarfuIssue Monitored: Alumine
2011-10-15 09:22DwarfuNote Added: 0018820
2011-10-15 09:23DwarfuNote Added: 0018821
2011-10-15 09:26DwarfuRelationship deletedparent of 0001887
2011-10-15 09:35DwarfuRelationship deletedrelated to 0001817
2011-12-11 09:47DwarfuTag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-12-11 09:49DwarfuNote Added: 0019131
2011-12-11 09:49DwarfuStatusnew => resolved
2011-12-11 09:49DwarfuResolutionopen => fixed
2011-12-11 09:49DwarfuAssigned To => Dwarfu
2011-12-11 09:49DwarfuRelationship addedchild of 0000823
2011-12-11 15:05DwarfuStatusresolved => assigned
2011-12-11 15:05DwarfuAssigned ToDwarfu => Toady One
2011-12-11 15:05DwarfuStatusassigned => resolved
2012-02-26 11:47BuglistIssue Monitored: Buglist
2012-02-26 11:53BuglistIssue End Monitor: Buglist
2014-07-23 13:01FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0007590

2010-04-09 13:42   
slade as a pref just means they like it, and probably used it somewhere outside of your fortress before moving.

As a mandate though, thats kinda annoying. But i guess it ranks up there with wanting shells for artifacts when there arent any turtles or shells on a given embark. Im assuming theres no 100% chance your embark contains the ability to make slade
2010-04-09 13:46   
(edited on: 2010-04-09 13:47)
Cybergenesis: If you don't know what slade is or how it works, you shouldn't add a note to this topic.

2010-04-09 15:02   
Kill him. Should be the fate of any noble who's demands get too ridiculous.
Not worth dealing with the jailtime/hammering.
2010-04-09 19:23   
We should keep conversations related to this bug.

His demands aren't 'ridiculous,' they're a bug. Slade cannot be used to create any sort of item that I'm aware of and therefore should not be a material on the possible preferences list.
2010-04-09 19:25   
Yes, I agree that slade should be excluded from a dwarf's personality preferences. It's as logical as having a preference for semi-molten rock.
2010-04-09 20:27   
s'far as I know, they never demanded items made out of admamantite either, so it's pretty extreme to demand slade even if it is possible.
2010-04-10 13:36   
I just had a dwarf mandate the construction of slade items, and the dwarf isn't even a noble (Well, he's purple, but isn't on the nobles screen, but then the surgeons are all purple too). However, he USED to be mayor. (Oddly his z screen shows required office stuff still) Looks like that bug has already been reported too, however.

Guess I'll have to have him executed. Twice.
2010-04-10 14:13   
Slade can be mined and then used like a normal rock, can't it? Anyway, I had a different problem - I had a mayor mandate construction of clay items. I have clay alright, but as far as I know mining clay and making anything out of it is not (yet) implemented. I also have an artifact that is listed as 'clay figurine'. The dwarf who created it didn't use any clay, only logs, bones, leather and gold nuggets.
2010-04-10 16:51   
Slade cannot be mined or extracted in any way (aside from the oddball occurrence of a perfectly-located cavein, but that's nothing to bet on), so it can't be made into anything.

And there have been a number of reports in the old versions of dwarves demanding items made out of adamantine. They generally didn't live long...
2010-04-11 23:09   
Okay, I don't think this is quite so minor, since we can't actually KILL the mayor or former mayor, without triggering another bug, which causes the loss of noble positions. D:

So I look forward to many more slade mandates in the future, I suppose.
2010-04-12 12:55   
The current workaround for all inconvenient mandates is to simply never appoint a sheriff or captain of the guard. This will simply produce a bad thought for the noble and none of your dwarves get hurt, as far as I remember.
2010-04-16 11:16   
Yea, this is technically normal since Adamantine showed up as a preference in 40D.
2010-04-16 12:30   
Yes, but at least it's possible to make Adamantine items. It is utterly IMpossible to make anything out of Slade.
2010-04-18 13:37   
I have a noble doing this as well.
also, I looked up slade in the manager, and it lists 'stud with slade' as a job.
Spiders Everywhere   
2010-05-02 22:54   
I've got a dwarf with this preference (fortunately not a noble). Interestingly, slade is the second item on his preference list, indicating it's his favorite metal, not stone. Consequence of METAL_TEMPLATE I suppose.
2010-05-22 17:13   
In a 0.31.04 fort i currently have 3 mayors of which 1 mandates "make slade items 2/2", he has slade as his 1st preference, followed by horn silver

i can upload a save if needed

so far i enjoy the dwarven justice my battle axe equipped captain of the guard applies around the fortress due to impossible mandates and requests
2010-05-22 18:53   
I think it can be a preference. They can like something, the dorf just have to understand eventually what they can make items out of.

This is a long standing issue of nobles demanding for objects to be made out of materials that aren't available. It should respect the stock screen really.
2010-09-02 12:48   
(edited on: 2010-09-02 12:49)
Almost definitely a result of 0000823, which allows the dwarf to prefer slade as a metal (rather than a stone) and thus makes it a valid material for issuing material-based mandates.

2010-09-02 15:26   
Dwarves can like both metal and stone.

Nobles have a long, proud history of making utterly absurd and impossible to fulfill demands.

Nobles have also had a long, proud history of suffering "unfortunate accidents."

I'm not sure how this is a bug.
2010-11-21 12:37   
Does this still occur in 0.31.18?
2011-02-05 00:07   
In the story line of Dwarf Fortress, it says that demons/ultra_demons can manipulate slade. So if you choose to play a demon race then making slade items should be theorectically possible to meet noble demands for slade items.

Perhaps the noble is demon possessed when in a strange mood? That's what demons do, they possess dwarves and play shady games with slade.

Slade is in the raw files so it's not specifically "slade" items that you don't want to be demanded from nobles but items that have the [UNDIGGABLE] token in the inorganic-material-item's raw file. Therefore it's not really "slade" that is buggy. But perhaps the UNDIGGABLE token found in the raw-files.

You could feasibly "fix" this "bug" yourself. You can remove the [UNDIGGABLE] tag from the slade definition in the raw file. I have not tried it but you shouldn't even have to regenerate a new world.

[for an alternate idea to simulate UNDIGGABLE perhaps this...]
You could also then make Slade REALLY heavy or big so noone can move it (I don't know how big the numbers are to stop a dwarf from moving it) effectively making it appear to be "unminable".

Also, while the unmined Slade's "material/mineral" appearance is not alterable (much), for the Slade STONE you could use the "space" character for it's visual and make it a pure color. (To me slade sounds black). So it would look like an undiscovered square (using the original graphics, not the new tilesets). So it would get mined but stay put just like the undiggable square is. I presume this is possible. Of course nobles could still demand it but you would therotically still could not meet that noble's demand.

Your flag as a bug brings up a good point though. But this can be converted into a feature request instead of a bug. There are mods that allow other races as a playable civilization.

Theorectically there could be a "demon" civ. Think of the movies/books "Krull" - the fortress in that story or even Lord of the Ring Sauron's mountain or even Saurmon's White tower, or the book Thomas Covenant Series, his castle floating in some void- all "fortresses very slade-like and crusial to their stories.

In the dwarf fortress story, adaminatine, the living metal, is the counter to the demon's slade. Adamantine is a metal the demons CAN'T manipulate. It has been said that if the demons knew that a copper pick could mine adamantine then all hell would break loose (because then they could escape thier adamantine prisons). However I like to think that it is not copper or demon material that prevents them from reshaping adamantine but the demon's SPHERE of being -EVIL- and the [DEMON] entity token in their raw-file definitions (see string dump on world.dat).

[BREAKING down an idea]
Dwarves can use the MINING skill(an implied skill token in the file: creature_standard.txt) and the MINER profession token, found in the file: entity_default.txt-[PERMITTED_JOB:MINER], and perahps the [DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK] matters here too, to convert certain items, on the map, known as "inorganic material" into the movable item the "stone" or boulder.

Dwarves can use another skill, MASONRY (an implied skill token which can be used in the file: creature_standard.txt might look like this: [NATURAL_SKILL:MINING:1]) and the MASON profession token, usable in the file: entity_default.txt-[PERMITTED_JOB:MASON], which allows said dwarf to convert the "stone" item into a different movable item on the map, like blocks or metal ore. Then another skill and profession to convert it to metal bars.

The trend I'm laying out here is professions allowed to a civilation, like the dwarf entity(equals civilization) in the "entity" file, and the skills allowed for a creature, define what map items can be converted, moved and used by a creature.

Therefore, to be consistant, the demon creature and demon civ (undefined as of yet) should have a profession and skill that allows manipulation of a specific material, slade. And other cives should not have these SLADE_MINER job/profession and SLADE_MINER skill tokens in their definitions.

BUT I like the simplicity of the [UNDIGGABLE] token. Perhaps the feature change could be to change the [UNDIGGABLE} token syntax to [UNUSABLE_EXCEPT:DEMON:MINER:MINER] where multiple [UNUSABLE_EXCEPTS:] could be done like the [SYN_...] symtom tokens and DEMOM being a TYPE could also be a SPHERE TYPE token. This would allow for another dimension/challenge of the game, thus more "fun".

Items made from materials with SPHERE alignments... Think of all the sphere types! You could have evil aligned weapons. or flutes made from materials with [UNUSABLE_EXCEPT:SPHERE:THUNDER] making a Thunder flute usable by Storm giants, etc. Or perhaps make the items carry-able but the effects "active" if the carrier has the same SPHERE as the material the item is made from.

And to stretch the notion a bit more: convert the [UNDIGGABLE] tag not just into [UNUSABLE_EXCEPT but also [ONLY_USABLE_BY:...:...], and [CAN_HAUL_EXCEPT:SPHERE:type] prevents a specif creature for carring and/or [CAN_HAUL:SPHERE:type] allows only specific creature to carry (or combine with another item], [CAN_MAKE: and [CAN_CRAFT_EXCEPT:, [CAN_DESTROY: + [CAN_DESTROY_EXCPT: ...can and cannot with the following... usable/unsuable, carry/haul, make/craft/produce{product:}, destroy/deconstruct, enchant, convert, link (as in level/floodgate), reacts_with, trade it, find it, see it, touch it, mount it, train it, etc, think of others...

And further, add a sub token [REACTS_WITH:sphere|material|creature:-reaction-] where this acts like a trigger where a Light sphere'd items touches with a dark sphere'd item an explosion could occur or both items evaporate without much fuss or some such thing.

ALSO: When a noble demands something that is not producable, said noble can cause .fun. Instead of just the happiness of said demanding dwarf being effected, or in addition to, why not have a flag of loyalty or friendship that is reduced by all dwarfs not exempt for meeting that demand and instead of just the noble's happiness being effected, have other dwarfs in a synronized action react to said crazy dwarf at some point... think Julius Ceasar's murder, an uprising or conspiracy instead of a single crazed noble-demanding dwarf?
2011-02-05 08:02   
Drikon, please keep your reports to info directly related to the original bug report.

Open discussion of ideas should be posted on the appropriate forum: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0 [^]
2011-04-25 03:11   
@Footkerchief Yes. Still occurs in 0.31.25
2011-10-13 09:59   
The bugfix for 0000823 (which was added in version 0.31.13) should prevent this from ever happening again, but worlds generated in versions 0.31.12 would continue to exhibit this problem indefinitely.

Alumine: in what version was your current world generated?
2011-10-15 09:22   
Reminder sent to: Alumine

You confirmed this bug as happening in 31.25 - was your world generated in 31.25 or in a previous version (specifically 31.13 and prior)? Please note if you are using any mods.
2011-10-15 09:23   
Depending on Alumine's answer, if there is an answer, we can change this to be a fixed child of 0000823 as it does seem to be a root cause.
2011-12-11 09:49   
No reply from Alumine, so marking this as a fixed child of 0000823.

Hundred, if you can reproduce this in a current version, please reopen this report and post what info you have.

If anyone else can reproduce this in a current version, please PM on the forums and I'll reopen it with your info.