|Anonymous | Login | Signup for a new account||2022-08-13 08:33 PDT|
|Main | My View | View Issues | Change Log | Roadmap|
|View Issue Details|
|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0010059||Dwarf Fortress||Dwarf Mode -- Locations||public||2016-10-29 07:58||2016-11-07 07:13|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0010059: Wild site animals have the same morale ethics [Kill_Enemy Neutral] as entity units if in the same local settled area|
|Description||This applies to DF mode (Adventure mode needs more research)|
When wild animals attack each other, if there is a dwarf site with [Kill Neutral:] on top, hostile animals will attack others but stop short of killing them in a (brawl) because they are both 'unarmed', additionally when fighting unarmed dwarves without a wrestler command or enlisted in the military, both will fight and stop (allowing all the surrounding dwarves to ignore it, and the animal will limp away ignored) from killing each other if the dwarf wins.
Somehow the ethics system is being placed on all local populations rather than discriminating entity citizens which it normally and functionally should apply to only.
|Steps To Reproduce||> Load up a a game of dwarf fortress mode in each, and dig to the cavernous layer, then wait for two groups to encounter each other|
> Watch as they take different approaches. The lethal acceptable animals should kill all neutral sentients it comes across, while the ONLY IF SANCTIONED groups will only brawl and part ways.
> Put a Un-armed melee specialist not assigned to a squad in the local area of a large predator wild animal with a rough guarantee to win the fight or pit the wild animal in the same area (ideally using burrows to move the dwarf)
> After fighting a while, the dwarf will eventually stop fighting and the defeated creature will be ignored by all other units, to which it will try to path off the map heavily wounded if the ethic is [:ONLY IF SANCTIONED], it will be a lethal battle regardless if the ethic is
> Same applies to item thief creatures like macaques, which bystanders will beat up but not kill, allowing the thief to crawl off the map without intervention even if still carrying a stolen object.
|Tags||brawling, enemies, entity_site, ethics, morale, site, wild animal, wrestling|
edited on: 2016-11-01 09:57
I have made a typo in my original post, i meant to say, "it will be a lethal battle regardless if the ethic is [:ACCEPTABLE] or [:REQUIRED]"
[EDIT] - Additional data
> Attacking a species of animal will affect their site relationship with you, by this i mean that because creatures (all kinds) will already have 'opinions' formed about your entity and respond in a sentient manner running away or running towards to attack you (sometimes just no reaction at all), if they are allowed to leave the site to rejoin the site population statistic their entire species will 'remember' the status of events.
> To my knowledge because troglodytes are already either hostile or fearful of dwarves (sometimes oblivious on 5 year starts) their site species in the 'global' caverns reacts to world-gen confrontations with dwarves that access there. Meaning that the implications of 1 fortress are carried through, and can be weaponised.
> Encounters with worldgen ranger jobtype (hunters etc.) & natural animal behaviour flags may set a standard for most animal behaviour. Animals in areas where your site entity has never been (adventurers walking though deserts) will never encounter hostile wildlife, as reported with non hostile wildlife encounters, and again occupational hunters going off to regions to hunt will aggravate wildlife and update their relationship status with you.
Which is additionally relevant to creatures like blind cave ogres which are reported to be completely docile (also registered as neutral) on lower cavern layers until attacked and allowed to flee/witnessing another member of its species being attacked because they live below the usual range where only player fortresses venture.
(0007369: Non-hostile blind cave ogre and other cavern creatures): http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7369 [^]
Here is a relevant save that is also covering bugs from (0010057) on the same shared save. Only 1 download of it is requires to address both bugs in this current form.
Areas of interest have (N)otes around them. For this specific bug there is...
> Troglodytes uncharacteristically fleeing on the 1st cavern layer from militia commander. (Image attached - http://puu.sh/s4dTJ/7f6c0def46.png [^]) exclaiming "overcome with terror!" and exclaimation emotional marks. This is not detailed in their pre-bug behaviour where they are aggressive and unable to express this range of emotion. No special tags set them apart other than being intelligent from other wildlife, this behavior carries to all wildlife in certain conditions i will try to replicate.
> Out of the same group, 3 troglodytes express more brave personality facets and are disposed by my skilled militia commander who they attack in sight of the fleeing troggs, who will relay that information to the site population statistic. (The troggs were already hostile 5 years in though being a member of the military stationed nearby might have had a effect, as reported war animals also fight randomly/trigger creatures compared to normal untrained), they are all his listed kills in this site from the east inbound now fleeing trogg group. (North on northwest zlevel 11-13)
> A kea fought my untrained pet dogs on the surface near the wagon trying to raid it (image attached - http://puu.sh/s4ecl/35658e9786.png [^]) but was not killed despite lung injuries and left empty handed. The kea's legs were scratched and the dogs collided with each other in a charge which may have dispelled the brawl combat by forcing all combatants to lie down (dogs were stunned, kea's legs were disabled and they stopped fighting after)
> A cave crocodile fought a troll (not listed, event happened within sight of my staircase as i was digging it) by brawling, later the crocodile fought troggs, which is noted. No casualties despite the ferocity of both, the troggs and crocodile all apparently left the map injured but alive (as i witness i did not see the crocodile bite the troll, and i searched thoroughly for future clues and corpses, nothing beyond trog & croc blood stains found and i do not think they bled to death out of sight, approximated 2/3 troggs from volume of non lethal blood splatter) (Image attached - http://puu.sh/s4eRQ/e954a0b94e.png [^]) located north west, directly west of the eastern dead troggs
> Domestic embark animals & pets, segregated into enclosures, the southmost is a pasture & a meeting place, the animals are partaking in 'talking' activities standing adjacent with dwarves, each other and the outpost liason. Across the hallway there is a puppy pen (excitably run around a lot) and a cat (extreme meanderer that follows its pet owner and public places) both gathered near the pet forbidden entrances and will escape if given the chance. Animals in meeting place talking are unphased and mingle in the intended area continue talking being where they want to be. (Image attached - http://puu.sh/s4eVH/c0dd2db8c9.png [^])
> Baby piglets, which are much less energetic but still as most baby animal states are meandering remain firmly within the pasture/meeting zone with the other animals socializing
> All the listed animals as dead within my range of sight that the game acknowledges without exploiting slabs (which i will do in advance for my follow up save)(Image attached - http://puu.sh/s4g5U/59156c9186.png [^])
edited on: 2016-11-07 07:55
[EDITED - Wrong bug report, now corrected]
As for a important note, there is significant research being done here within this dfforum thread
Identified within are images and observations that demonstrate that all creatures share personality facets which cause emotions based on the different CIV based values. Images enclosed of the troglodyte within the save's personality facet and emotion expressed at the time of fleeing, which is recreatable from probing the (status - current soul or souls screen) on the troggs described near the notes in the save in that state.
> https://puu.sh/s9roI/ed72eeaba9.png [^]
> https://puu.sh/s9rEB/ba8b2ba857.png [^]
Peasants (profession 102) are made out of any intelligent unit regardless of intelligence, as soon as they are committed to a 'Mill Building' or related idle routine as units of your faction. In world-gen this has implications as expressed here in the link below because semi-sapients are used both as a workforce being assigned and livestock meaning they eat their own kind, be registered as population and summarily raise the total stocks of goblins, trolls and beak dogs equally within dark towers specifically.
0007526: Dark towers contain thousands of goblins and trolls, causing lag
> http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7526 [^]
Application in using the latest alpha version 43.05 (at own risk) will allow you to properly probe the states with 'gui/gm-editor' on the save.
|2016-10-29 07:58||FantasticDorf||New Issue|
|2016-10-29 09:24||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0036012|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: brawling|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: enemies|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: ethics|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: morale|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: site|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: wild animal|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: wrestling|
|2016-10-29 09:31||FantasticDorf||Tag Attached: entity_site|
|2016-11-01 09:34||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0036012||View Revisions|
|2016-11-01 09:57||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0036012||View Revisions|
|2016-11-02 11:40||FantasticDorf||Issue Monitored: FantasticDorf|
|2016-11-02 12:48||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0036022|
|2016-11-07 07:13||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0036038|
|2016-11-07 07:55||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0036038||View Revisions|
|2018-04-16 18:14||Huntthetroll||Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll|
|Copyright © 2000 - 2010 MantisBT Group|