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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0010357Dwarf FortressWorld Generation -- Beastspublic2017-11-25 06:352018-04-06 13:37
Assigned ToDwarfu 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.44.02 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0010357: Horse overpopulation (mostly in hillocks)
DescriptionHorse populations are very high in hillocks. Most hillocks have 350 horses per site. They frequently outnumber the dwarves who inhabit the site.

There are also lesser but still significant horse populations in human sites. Generally 50 per site.
Steps To ReproduceGenerate world with hillocks.
Additional InformationSave: [^]
TagsNo tags attached.
Attached Files

- Relationships

-  Notes
thvaz (reporter)
2017-11-25 17:23

I guess that is because the game is considering savage horse populations numbers? I mean, in the raws they are the only domestic animal with population and cluster numbers.
Dwarfu (manager)
2017-11-29 17:19

Outdoor animal populations have their own number. I just checked my current game:

(outdoor animal population of horses: 12398)

Every hillock with horses has exactly 350.
Every town/hamlet with horses has exactly 50.
Fortresses seem to have either or 10 or 25.
Elf sites, no matter who owns them (conquered), seem to have normal population numbers for horses (in-line with other same-site animals).
Trif (reporter)
2017-11-30 05:35

And it's not just horses. In my world I noticed the same thing with camels. And that magic number 350 keeps showing up.

Just one very clear example:

150: Ducimrosat, "Workedchapel", hillocks
    Owner: The Fence of Stockades, dwarves
    Parent Civ: The Bulbous Floor, dwarves
    95 dwarves
    2 dogs
    350 one-humped camels
    10 blue peafowls
    350 horses
    350 two-humped camels
    23 cats
    9 dwarf outcasts
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2017-11-30 08:19

With other civilisations, the ratio usually remains similarly constant, but modding with [ANIMAL] entity tags shows that creatures with the most functions & roles are prioritised. Adding a animal with [ALWAYS_AVAILIBLE] but no enabled roles (a sentient for instance, disabled on all roles) will only spawn 3 or 5 of maximum compared to other animals.

Horses possess nearly all of the tags, short of trainable to be egible to spawn the most of, camels are similarly equipped in tags. I would ask that the system be reviewed and adjustable site population caps for all animals are put in place, especially if it exaggerates site population buggily as a result.

Only other report im aware of where numbers are numerically perfect (without worldgen events depleting population) is 0007154 where sites had maximum amounts of animals Toady said they fixed in 40.09. It may not have been actually fixed but toady put a cap on how fast they can grow in regards to population scaling, hence the perfect numbers.
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2018-04-06 13:37

[USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] is noted for using trolls & beak dogs in war-situations (faulted by toady as a cause in [^] ) which is said to bloat populations and helping to exceed caps which i mentioned in my save and note for [^] for 0007526 as far foward as 44.09

Similarly identically numbered amounts of trolls and beak dogs will be present upon the sites as the comparisons to horses & camels above.

The horse bug also reared its head again with a abnormal population of 350 horses in that save too in Fatham, "Sackopened" a hillocks in that linked save while the change to allow the evil war animals with [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] was enabled for dwarves by modding in 44.09

This image taken from discord image sharing plus other user's modded save photographs demonstrate slow learners earning both 'recruit' and usual historical name titles as to prove they are gaining historical status as per toady's account. 0007526 & 0010613 lack of creature tag support created half citizens leading to behaviour (more relevant to exhibit 1 and this issue)

Image 1 of named beak dog & troll's arriving for a player's siege : [^]

Image (modded game) 2 by @ZM5 : [^]
Image (modded game) 3 by @ZM5 : [^]

And all of these can be referenced in this forum thread for recordkeeping
> [^]

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2017-11-25 06:35 bearskie New Issue
2017-11-25 06:35 bearskie Issue Monitored: bearskie
2017-11-25 06:35 bearskie Issue End Monitor: bearskie
2017-11-25 17:23 thvaz Note Added: 0037010
2017-11-29 17:19 Dwarfu Note Added: 0037119
2017-11-29 17:19 Dwarfu Assigned To => Dwarfu
2017-11-29 17:19 Dwarfu Status new => confirmed
2017-11-30 05:35 Trif Note Added: 0037140
2017-11-30 08:19 FantasticDorf Note Added: 0037143
2018-01-13 08:56 Huntthetroll Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll
2018-04-06 13:37 FantasticDorf Note Added: 0038137

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