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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0010848Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Immigrationpublic2018-07-26 17:512021-01-22 15:26
Assigned ToLoci 
PlatformPCOSWindowsOS VersionWindows 7
Product Version0.44.12 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0010848: Can not expel new arrival - "Child is not present"
DescriptionAlright, this is gonna be very unprofessional, but it's the best I can do, because all I have is a guess and no means to actually test it. Someone with better tools/knowledge than I can perhaps look into it.

Sometimes, usually at least once per migrant wave, I have a new arrival that I can not expel, the reason being "Child is not present."

Even after the entire migrant wave finishes, I still can't expel the dorf, which leads me to believe one of three scenarios is at play here:

1) The child never arrived to the fort, is dead or alive but somewhere else. I'd say that's a bug.
2) The migrating dorfs are parents of a dorf that was already in the fort, but expelled before they arrived. Bit of a stretch here, I don't think that's likely.
3) The child in question hasn't been born yet and the migrating ladydorf is pregnant. If the babies/population caps prevent her from giving birth, that could mean never being able to expel that dorf.

Given that I've discovered that newborn babies are born with severe cave adaptation (possibly intended?), the overthinker in me would assume that babies exist as entities before they're even born, hence the cave adaptation and hence the inability to expel dorfs.

I'm sorry I don't have anything concrete, but at least it's something to look into. Or let me know it works as intended, since I haven't seen any mention of these issues anywhere.
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-  Notes
PatrikLundell (reporter)
2018-07-27 01:53

It's a known problem, and there should already be a bug report for it (Toady is aware of the problem anyway). The issue is that ANY children, including ones out in the world, prevents the exiling of parents.

The pop cap blocks further pregnancies from happening, while ones already present are proceeding normally. Thus, the pop cap can be breached if multiple pregnancies are initiated while there are fewer "slots" left.
Shonai_Dweller (reporter)
2018-07-27 03:10
edited on: 2018-07-27 03:11

No, it's any children that are out in the world which prevents exile. Children in the fortress are fine (they leave with the parents).

PatrikLundell (reporter)
2018-07-28 01:58

I stand corrected.
Loci (manager)
2018-07-28 13:27

"Hmm, yeah, perhaps it's being overzealous with the child check? It's meant to prevent odd situations like expelling one spouse while another holding a baby is off on a mission or something, but it seems to be checking against children that are properly settled elsewhere in the world? It was supposed to be checking for fort entity membership, to cut out the latter case (where they might have stayed with a position-holding spouse instead of coming with the original immigrant, say.) Unless you are talking about adult children off living their lives, which would be even more broken." [^]
Shonai_Dweller (reporter)
2018-07-28 20:38

Just in case no-one's sure yet, I checked this, and adult children out living their lives don't prevent the exile function. So the majority of the time it's only caused by kidnapped children. Kind of works for rp? 'I'm not leaving until you send a squad to rescue my kids...'
Shonai_Dweller (reporter)
2018-08-03 17:39

Oh, this is a new one.
Tried to expel a stressed human monster slayer. "Cannot expel, Spouse is not present".
Well, yeah, she's a monster slayer, she didn't bring any of her family with her obviously.
Balgias (reporter)
2019-03-31 02:33

It makes zero sense to be making exceptions to the expel command unless the person is some type of noble.
Shonai_Dweller (reporter)
2020-02-22 15:31
edited on: 2020-02-22 16:38

This is still a thing in 47.03. But in this version, children born out of wedlock apparently don't count.

My current fortress allows one dwarf to be expelled, but not another. Both are in almost the same situation (children not present due to being "guests" of goblins since a couple of years ago). The only difference being that one dwarf's children are that of his wife (cannot expel, child not present) and the other's are children of his lover (can be expelled).

Oh, no wait, only applies to men apparently. Cannot expel women with off-site children born out of wedlock.

And in my current fortress, I've found a dwarf who cannot be expelled because her adult son is not present. I'm pretty sure this wasn't a thing previously. He's a mercenary, being hired to fight in a whole bunch of wars, which is new for 47.x so might be related.

--Apologies, last edit here.
Found a male dwarf, several grown children all born out of wedlock. "Cannot expel, child not present"
At this point, I give up trying to spot patterns. I conclude that some dwarves are more attached to their absent children than others and bug occurs.

Toady One (administrator)
2021-01-22 15:26

I've fixed the case where the child is grown up for 0.47.05.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2018-07-26 17:51 uristkibkalan New Issue
2018-07-27 01:53 PatrikLundell Note Added: 0038639
2018-07-27 03:10 Shonai_Dweller Note Added: 0038640
2018-07-27 03:11 Shonai_Dweller Note Edited: 0038640 View Revisions
2018-07-28 01:58 PatrikLundell Note Added: 0038642
2018-07-28 13:27 Loci Note Added: 0038645
2018-07-28 13:27 Loci Assigned To => Loci
2018-07-28 13:27 Loci Status new => acknowledged
2018-07-28 13:27 Loci Summary Can not expel new arrival - pregnancy possible cause? => Can not expel new arrival - "Child is not present"
2018-07-28 20:38 Shonai_Dweller Note Added: 0038654
2018-08-03 17:39 Shonai_Dweller Note Added: 0038672
2019-03-31 02:33 Balgias Note Added: 0039305
2020-02-22 15:31 Shonai_Dweller Note Added: 0040167
2020-02-22 15:43 Shonai_Dweller Note Edited: 0040167 View Revisions
2020-02-22 15:56 Shonai_Dweller Note Edited: 0040167 View Revisions
2020-02-22 16:38 Shonai_Dweller Note Edited: 0040167 View Revisions
2021-01-22 15:26 Toady One Note Added: 0040868

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