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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0011288Dwarf FortressAdventure Mode -- Combatpublic2020-02-02 07:172020-02-02 09:47
ReporterAlceris 
Assigned To 
PriorityhighSeveritymajorReproducibilityalways
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.47.01 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0011288: Adventurers are still far more restricted in the actions they can take in combat than AI-controlled units.
DescriptionThings that AI-controlled units can do that player-controlled adventurers still cannot include, but may not be limited to

Performing actions during other, different actions, such as attacking in the middle of moving or talking, or moving after performing a ranged attack or while talking, talking while attacking, etc. This is improved somewhat by tactical mode, but that still has significant limitations, like not being able to use it without companions, and if the entire party is performing actions it still skips time as normal.

Attack creatures that have been sent flying by throwing, being hit really hard, jumping, etc.
Steps To ReproduceGet into a fight as an adventurer.
Additional InformationTo solve this, I would recommend allowing the player to toggle tactical mode regardless of whether or not they have companions, automatically enable it when a fight breaks out or at least when the player actually gets attacked, and never skip time while it's enabled. If the AI can perform an action, the player should also be able to perform that same action under the same circumstances.
TagsNo tags attached.
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-  Notes
(0039797)
Talvieno (reporter)
2020-02-02 08:36
edited on: 2020-02-02 08:38

I don't believe this is a bug. This falls less into the category of "bugs" and more into the realm of "opinion" and "game design debate".

Very, very few games actually give the NPCs equal ability to the player. Even games that pretend to do so (XCOM for instance) give the player hidden bonuses that are never actually shown, and tweak displayed values to give the player a more exciting experience (for instance, when you have a 99% chance to miss a shot, your chance to miss is actually closer to 85%, or 5 in 6). In FPS games, the player is usually wildly overpowered - and that's okay, because in those games, you're trying to give the player a feeling of power.

This really just comes down to what Toady's vision for DF is, and how powerful he wants the player to feel.

Finally, I'd like to point out that adventurers in DF are able to do multi-actions - multiple actions at the same time - and NPCs are not. That's probably a lot more useful in combat than moving while talking.

(0039800)
Alceris (reporter)
2020-02-02 08:49

What NPCs can't do is multiple *attacks* at the same time, and that's only if they don't have attacks with [ATTACK_FLAG_INDEPENDENT_MULTIATTACK] on them. They can otherwise do multiple actions at the same time better than even the player can, as they can attack any number of times in the middle of moving or talking, and they can move after firing a bolt or arrow, where if the player tries to move and their move speed isn't good, or they try to talk, or they try to use ranged attacks while the enemy is capable of reaching them, they get immediately torn apart, completely unable to defend themself.
(0039801)
Goblin Cookie (reporter)
2020-02-02 09:18

It is funny how you flagged this problem as severity major when it is a minor nuisance if not a feature. At present the human player will pretty much always win a fair fight against an AI creature, because the human player has a better grasp of how to manipulate the game mechanics and the AI does not know how to counter this.
(0039803)
Talvieno (reporter)
2020-02-02 09:47

Shift+A is your friend when attacking an enemy. If you just try to kill enemies by running into them, you'll die pretty quickly, but if you use Shift+A and know how to parry, you can easily win most 1 on 1 encounters.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2020-02-02 07:17 Alceris New Issue
2020-02-02 08:36 Talvieno Note Added: 0039797
2020-02-02 08:38 Talvieno Note Edited: 0039797 View Revisions
2020-02-02 08:49 Alceris Note Added: 0039800
2020-02-02 09:18 Goblin Cookie Note Added: 0039801
2020-02-02 09:47 Talvieno Note Added: 0039803


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