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|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0002687||Dwarf Fortress||Dwarf Mode -- Military||public||2010-07-13 21:42||2019-12-29 05:25|
|Assigned To||Toady One|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0002687: Constant "pickup equipment" cripples military functionality|
|Description||Without an arsenal dwarf, military dwarves now constantly switch to "pickup equipment" and spends considerable time moving to/from and standing over weapon/armor stockpiles instead of doing anything useful. This is done repeatedly even when no new equipment is being produced.|
Dwarves will also abandon the "station" order to do this, so it's rare for more than half of the available squad members to actually be stationed at any given time.
Forbidding all excess equipment is the only way to prevent this problem.
|Steps To Reproduce||Create a full squad, assign them a uniform, and make more than enough equipment for them.|
Create a stockpile for the extra equipment.
The stockpile will always have dwarves on it swapping equipment back and forth, never reaching a point where all dwarves are satisfied with what they have equipped.
|Tags||No tags attached.|
|It would be helpful to upload a save demonstrating this problem to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]|
|save uploaded to http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2685 [^]|
|As I have been changing and upgrading uniforms, this seems to be a problem that gets worse with time. I haven't changed the axedwarf uniform in three years, yet there's always military guys hovering over the armor stockpile. How can that be? They are set to be uniformed while off duty, so there should never be a reason to change clothes.|
Toady One (administrator)
|There were some bugs that made them hover around the armor pile, and I had a squad of RabidRabbit's hang out for a while until one of them deciding to go sleep without having a single pickup equipment job, but I'm going to leave this one open for the time being. It's still probably possible to get an annoying equipment cascade going, but I'll need a new save for it once I release 0.31.11 now that many issues have been handled.|
|this will happen even if you remove the dwarf from the military and put him in his own squad and assign no uniform and all you want him to do is grab the EFFING CROSSBOW and train... I wish that we could revert to old school military|
I have found in almost all my cases of this problem (standing over armor stockpile, trying to put on item) that setting the uniform to "R"eplace clothing instead of over clothing unfreezes the soldier. It seems the uniform+civilian clothes violates the layering rules (and thus the soldier cannot wear everything specified) but the game nevertheless keeps trying to complete the uniform.
Specific instances I have seen - dwarf wears two socks on one foot, preventing putting on high boot, dwarf wears tunic+shirt+cloak, preventing wearing mail shirt+breastplate.
|I have observed a similar behavior in .25, and it could be due to the things Langdon observed. I had five squads. Some of them would equip their gear fine. However, two squads would only equip gear once they were activated. I don't know why that is. This is the squad that gets "equip item" jobs non-stop too.|
|You don't have any of your soldiers assigned to do Mining, Wood Cutting, or Hunting, do you?|
Just to add a data point: on version .31.25, I had a dwarf stuck in the endless pickup cycle after I tried to add an adam mail shirt to his existing steel mail shirt/steel breastplate/6 cloaks combo. Following various suggestions, I tried (in rough order) setting "replace clothing", then no food (therefore no backpack), then disbanding/reforming/re-equipping the squad, all with limited success. At this point the upper-body equipment is just one steel mail shirt and 6 cloaks, and not pickup-cycling, despite missing the most important bits assigned to him.
Then I try unassigning all but one cloak. He instantly walks over and picks up the adam mail shirt and steel breastplate he'd been ignoring, and happily walks to his station... with his two mail shirts, breastplate, *and* 6 cloaks on, 5 of which were unassigned to him.
(granted, "replace" got reset to default when I redeployed the squad so it's not like he was ordered to un-wear them, but if the combo is OK as a military/civ mix, what was wrong with it as an all-military set?)
edited on: 2011-09-19 23:14
OK, I've tried systematically testing various combos on a fresh world/embark, but for the most part have not been able to get repeatable results. I do however have one result that looks consistent:
- Set military uniform to "replace clothing"
- Set supplies to no food (or water, but I did not test whether that was relevant)
- Set uniform to 10 cloaks (nothing else). Around 8 or less probably won't work.
- Allow grunt to run around and pick them up -- result: 10 cloaks worn.
- Set supplies to 3 food
- Allow grunt to run for backpack -- result: 10 cloaks and backpack worn
- Drop one cloak from the uniform, and allow grunt to drop or stockpile it.
- Add one cloak back to the uniform -- result: 9 cloaks, backpack, and grunt standing on the 10th assigned cloak, pickup cycling (while unpaused, hit v-esc-v-esc repeatedly and you can see him cycling between no job and pickup).
I've replicated this in 2 different forts, one a tiny test-focused one, the other a full-size mature fort. If other people get the same result, maybe this will help put a finger on the problem.
Important note: I also see some cycling without backpacks. This is just the one setup I've found that seems to produce consistent results. It seems like the problem happens more often with backpacks than without, but I have yet to find a repeatable testcase without backpacks.
|Toady may need an up-to-date save (0.34.02+) to fix this problem. It would be helpful for someone to upload a save to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^] and post the link here.|
Just posted a v.34.05 save that has this behavior at:
Note that you send either/both squads into the forest outside of the fortress, and several soldiers will constantly turn around to pickup equipment.
my setup: no squad has individ. choice. Miner have picks, hunter are in x-bow squad, woodcutter in axe squad. no one but miners have picks and no one in pick squad doesnt have mining activated. replace clothing, inactive=uniformed
Everything works fine, except:
(1) i accidently forbid a bunch of clothes in the inventory of those dwarves and got many of them in exactly that pickup equipment loop, because they couldnt get rid of those forbidden items. (my suggestion:pls let dwarves at least drop forbidden stuff. even better: let them drop all forbidden stuff immediately. dont forbid attached weapons/armor automatically)
(2) sometimes come migrants already with miner /woodcutter /hunter activated. this fucks with my ordered setup and ownership of tools and miner/woodcutter/hunter stop doing their jobs and only the newcomer does stuff reliably. easily fixed by reverting back to ordered military setup explained above. in stubborn cases: remove weapon from uniform, assign to squad, add weapon, assign to squad
(3) idk what caused this but there was one time (in about 12 years of my fortress) that all my miner were called wrestler, despite having picks in the uniform. they fought only with fists, ignoring their picks. my fix: remove weapon from uniform, assign, add weapon, assign.
(4)somehow i can have 1 gauntlets in the uniform and they get a pair (left/right), but for the boots i need to put 2 boots into the uniform so that they reliably use high boots on both foots.
(5)sometimes i meet some dwarves who totally ignore uniform and armor setup, despite most of my dwarves being fully armored. normally this happens when they have pickup equipment jobs or may be interrupted in this. the weird thing: instead of running half naked or using the armor that has been assigned to them, they use totally inadequate (because half rotten) civilian clothes. after some time they do their pickup equip loop and everything is fine again.
Above post is spam yet to still be replied to in 0000535 for reference to Mantis Moderators.
To the OP's issue report this is still the case in 44.12 when though modding a arsenal dwarf (by its archaic hardcoded positon token title) is added to the fortress mode this issue resolves itself by slowing down the aquisition of new equipment to a healthy delay.
Which with more relaxed routine of dismissing squads with cleared schedule, they have opportunity to renew whatever uniform and non-uniform accessories they need to. Other behaviours expressed involve rudimentary storage mentioned here ((http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=535#c39139 [^]))
Though with these part-complete faulty behaviours, the nearly 8 year old binary patch provided would probably not fix the code problems pointed out on 0001445
|2010-07-13 21:42||RabidRabbit||New Issue|
|2010-07-13 21:49||Footkerchief||Note Added: 0010197|
|2010-07-13 21:49||Footkerchief||Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE|
|2010-07-15 14:09||RabidRabbit||Note Added: 0010373|
|2010-07-15 14:13||Footkerchief||Relationship added||child of 0000535|
|2010-07-16 08:32||Conti||Issue Monitored: Conti|
|2010-07-21 19:34||Footkerchief||Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE|
|2010-07-21 20:28||cephalo||Note Added: 0010801|
|2010-07-22 07:11||Toady One||Note Added: 0010812|
|2010-07-22 07:11||Toady One||Assigned To||=> Toady One|
|2010-07-22 07:11||Toady One||Status||new => acknowledged|
|2010-08-10 10:04||theqmann||Issue Monitored: theqmann|
|2010-11-11 11:00||Khym Chanur||Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur|
|2011-01-05 19:20||Diakron||Note Added: 0014796|
|2011-02-26 23:35||Hieronymous Alloy||Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy|
|2011-03-29 20:10||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0004386|
|2011-03-30 04:57||Langdon||Note Added: 0016794|
|2011-04-04 18:24||Jumpp||Issue Monitored: Jumpp|
|2011-04-05 04:16||kwieland||Note Added: 0017077|
|2011-07-09 03:54||Beeskee||Issue Monitored: Beeskee|
|2011-07-09 08:47||Quietust||Note Added: 0018177|
|2011-07-22 17:11||Vherid||Issue Monitored: Vherid|
|2011-09-13 20:28||UristMcDorf||Note Added: 0018725|
|2011-09-19 22:53||UristMcDorf||Note Added: 0018744|
|2011-09-19 23:14||UristMcDorf||Note Edited: 0018744||View Revisions|
|2011-10-27 23:08||UristMcDorf||Issue Monitored: UristMcDorf|
|2012-03-20 19:48||Footkerchief||Note Added: 0021619|
|2012-03-21 19:51||ModernMajorGeneral||Note Added: 0021645|
|2012-03-26 09:53||thvaz||Issue Monitored: thvaz|
|2012-04-02 05:02||ModernMajorGeneral||Issue Monitored: ModernMajorGeneral|
|2012-04-07 07:11||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0005783|
|2014-09-25 09:07||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0008345|
|2019-12-28 19:38||Shadesmar||Note Added: 0039643|
|2019-12-29 05:25||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0039645|
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