0003392: Trade capacities are way too high - Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker

(0013279)
Jiri Petru (reporter)
2010-10-09 10:48

Well, tamed animals could walk along the caravan instead of being traded in cages. That way we could still get elephants.

(0013287)
burlingk (reporter)
2010-10-09 19:18

I have not played .16 yet, but I know that 31.x so far has not had wagons. I just assumed that the animals carrying more was to compensate for this fact.

(0013349)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-10-13 11:17

According to Toady, wagons are supposed to be showing up - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62202.msg1426260#msg1426260 [^]

(0013350)
al103 (reporter)
2010-10-13 12:08

He answered about was it bug or not I think, so they supposed to show up, but because of bug they do not.

(0019273)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-01-01 13:04
edited on: 2012-01-01 13:06

After using some memory hacking to bring wagons back, another issue has become apparent: the WOOD tissue does not have any of the necessary properties (such as MUSCULAR, FUNCTIONAL, STRUCTURAL, etc.) as is the case with other inorganic creatures such as iron men, bronze colossuses, etc.; as a result, wagons move rather slowly (about as slow as pack animals). The creature itself also lacks [NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT], which may also be part of the problem.

(0020199)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-02-19 17:34

Now that wagons are back, this is somewhat more of an issue - wagons can carry exactly way too much stuff, and any caravan that arrives with wagons will always depart with its pack animals carrying nothing at all.

(0020236)
Kogut (reporter)
2012-02-20 00:02
edited on: 2012-02-20 00:04

@realism

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ZDsHEdDncLkJ:his.library.nenu.edu.cn/upload/soft/haopdf/78/21939232.pdf+wagon+medieval+capacity&hl=pl&gl=pl&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh-wfGH32pWO6OY4EmavNinZ09YQ50tgY0QyHX27my5g7Z--n7AeplQNzaO1adUrtYgUD5KtzD9d_1NZBHIZnSHaZntUbIulds6ZapdwoCcLvgLARTCT0yNKj2Hj-EwMHy9qfhO&sig=AHIEtbQZFdPXwMXwm4YuJxOlGHHaVwOCbg [^]

The carrying capacity of a cart remains a difﬁcult question. A.C. Leighton, Transport and Communication in Early Medieval Europe, AD 500–1100 (New York, 1972), p. 72, gives the ﬁgure of 1000 pounds for the carrying capacity of a two-wheeled Roman vehicle. M. Girault, Attelages et charrois au Moyen-Age (Paris, 1992), p. 138, sees pulling capacity of medieval carts limited to 500 kilograms, or 1100 pounds. If Girault is correct, then the carts in use by the English government during Edward’s reign could carry approximately half a ton, and the wagons as well as ox-drawn carts (palustra) could carry about a ton. Masschaele, ‘Transport Costs’, pp. 268–69, identiﬁes several texts from the fourteenth century in which vehicles drawn by four horses are reported to have transported 4 quarters, or 2000 pounds, of supplies. It is not clear from Masschaele’s description of the texts he cites whether these vehicles are two-wheeled carettae or four-wheeled cartae.

(0022015)
Kogut (reporter)
2012-04-02 04:35

Still in 34.07

(0028966)
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-08-13 12:15

Is this bug still present in 0.40.08+?

(0028968)
Quietust (reporter)
2014-08-13 12:18

Very likely - wagons still have [TRADE_CAPACITY:15000], and it's almost guaranteed that said value is still being interpreted the same way.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-10-08 20:40	Quietust	New Issue
2010-10-09 10:48	Jiri Petru	Note Added: 0013279
2010-10-09 19:18	burlingk	Note Added: 0013287
2010-10-09 19:19	burlingk	Issue Monitored: burlingk
2010-10-13 11:17	Quietust	Note Added: 0013349
2010-10-13 12:08	al103	Note Added: 0013350
2010-11-16 13:38	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000325
2010-11-16 13:38	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000197
2012-01-01 13:04	Quietust	Note Added: 0019273
2012-01-01 13:06	Quietust	Note Edited: 0019273	View Revisions
2012-02-19 17:34	Quietust	Note Added: 0020199
2012-02-20 00:02	Kogut	Note Added: 0020236
2012-02-20 00:03	Kogut	Note Edited: 0020236	View Revisions
2012-02-20 00:03	Kogut	Note Edited: 0020236	View Revisions
2012-02-20 00:04	Kogut	Note Edited: 0020236	View Revisions
2012-02-21 06:38	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0005351
2012-02-26 10:39	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001024
2012-04-02 04:35	Kogut	Note Added: 0022015
2012-04-23 06:57	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0005351
2014-08-13 12:15	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0028966
2014-08-13 12:15	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-08-13 12:15	Footkerchief	Status	new => needs feedback
2014-08-13 12:18	Quietust	Note Added: 0028968
2014-08-13 12:18	Quietust	Status	needs feedback => assigned
2014-08-13 12:19	Footkerchief	Status	assigned => confirmed

Notes
(0013279) Jiri Petru (reporter) 2010-10-09 10:48	Well, tamed animals could walk along the caravan instead of being traded in cages. That way we could still get elephants.

(0013287) burlingk (reporter) 2010-10-09 19:18	I have not played .16 yet, but I know that 31.x so far has not had wagons. I just assumed that the animals carrying more was to compensate for this fact.

(0013349) Quietust (reporter) 2010-10-13 11:17	According to Toady, wagons are supposed to be showing up - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62202.msg1426260#msg1426260 [^]

(0013350) al103 (reporter) 2010-10-13 12:08	He answered about was it bug or not I think, so they supposed to show up, but because of bug they do not.

(0019273) Quietust (reporter) 2012-01-01 13:04 edited on: 2012-01-01 13:06	After using some memory hacking to bring wagons back, another issue has become apparent: the WOOD tissue does not have any of the necessary properties (such as MUSCULAR, FUNCTIONAL, STRUCTURAL, etc.) as is the case with other inorganic creatures such as iron men, bronze colossuses, etc.; as a result, wagons move rather slowly (about as slow as pack animals). The creature itself also lacks [NO_THOUGHT_CENTER_FOR_MOVEMENT], which may also be part of the problem.

(0020199) Quietust (reporter) 2012-02-19 17:34	Now that wagons are back, this is somewhat more of an issue - wagons can carry exactly way too much stuff, and any caravan that arrives with wagons will always depart with its pack animals carrying nothing at all.

(0020236) Kogut (reporter) 2012-02-20 00:02 edited on: 2012-02-20 00:04	@realism https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:ZDsHEdDncLkJ:his.library.nenu.edu.cn/upload/soft/haopdf/78/21939232.pdf+wagon+medieval+capacity&hl=pl&gl=pl&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESh-wfGH32pWO6OY4EmavNinZ09YQ50tgY0QyHX27my5g7Z--n7AeplQNzaO1adUrtYgUD5KtzD9d_1NZBHIZnSHaZntUbIulds6ZapdwoCcLvgLARTCT0yNKj2Hj-EwMHy9qfhO&sig=AHIEtbQZFdPXwMXwm4YuJxOlGHHaVwOCbg [^] The carrying capacity of a cart remains a difﬁcult question. A.C. Leighton, Transport and Communication in Early Medieval Europe, AD 500–1100 (New York, 1972), p. 72, gives the ﬁgure of 1000 pounds for the carrying capacity of a two-wheeled Roman vehicle. M. Girault, Attelages et charrois au Moyen-Age (Paris, 1992), p. 138, sees pulling capacity of medieval carts limited to 500 kilograms, or 1100 pounds. If Girault is correct, then the carts in use by the English government during Edward’s reign could carry approximately half a ton, and the wagons as well as ox-drawn carts (palustra) could carry about a ton. Masschaele, ‘Transport Costs’, pp. 268–69, identiﬁes several texts from the fourteenth century in which vehicles drawn by four horses are reported to have transported 4 quarters, or 2000 pounds, of supplies. It is not clear from Masschaele’s description of the texts he cites whether these vehicles are two-wheeled carettae or four-wheeled cartae.

(0022015) Kogut (reporter) 2012-04-02 04:35	Still in 34.07

(0028966) Footkerchief (manager) 2014-08-13 12:15	Is this bug still present in 0.40.08+?

(0028968) Quietust (reporter) 2014-08-13 12:18	Very likely - wagons still have [TRADE_CAPACITY:15000], and it's almost guaranteed that said value is still being interpreted the same way.