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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0007869Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Transport/Haulingpublic2014-08-06 02:262015-02-09 14:01
Assigned ToFootkerchief 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.40.06 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0007869: Dwarves compulsively store seeds in bags, even when no stockpile accepts those seeds
DescriptionDwarves will compulsively place seeds in bags, even when no stockpile accepts those seeds. This results in a steady drain of bags that interferes with other bag-using tasks (like milling).
Steps To Reproducedump seeds out of bag using a garbage zone
unforbid seeds
dwarves will immediately rebag seeds
Attached Files

- Relationships
has duplicate 0004349resolvedFootkerchief Items w/o stockpiles being placed in containers. 
has duplicate 0009346resolvedLoci bags cluttering with inedible seeds from tree fruits 
related to 0008533confirmedFootkerchief One bag contains entire supply (hundreds) of seeds 
related to 0008091assignedFootkerchief Conflict between seed caps 
related to 0008760confirmedLoci store item in bag job takes empty bag and several kinds of seeds 

-  Notes
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-08-06 07:39

What makes you think this isn't intentional?
Loci (manager)
2014-08-06 13:04

No other hauling task is initiated without a destination stockpile. Dwarves don't stuff socks into a sock-bin unless you have a sock-stockpile. Dwarves don't put plants in a plant-barrel unless you have a plant-stockpile. (And in both those cases the player can control whether or not a container gets used.) Quarry bush leaves dumped out of a bag are not immediately rebagged. Only seeds are automatically, and frustratingly uncontrollably, bagged over and over again.

Even if it is intentional, the behavior ties up enough fortress resources to rise to the level of "bug" in my opinion. Producing 100+ extra bags just to store worthless seeds is annoying.
Dwarfu (manager)
2014-08-06 13:16

d_init.txt has the option [STORE_DIST_SEED_COMBINE:1000], which while it doesn't solve the problem of rebagging, it does help cut down on the number of bags used. This has just been aggravated with the addition of a zillion more types of seeds.
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-08-06 16:01

Yeah, the fact that the init option exists makes me think this behavior is known and intentional (for now).
Loci (manager)
2014-08-06 17:07

I have not modified the "[STORE_DIST_SEED_COMBINE:1000]" line, which Toady claims is "very aggressive". I'm not sure exactly how that option is supposed to work, but I think I can safely state that it isn't reducing the bag-clutter significantly. After purchasing a load of fruit from the elves and brewing it in the still, I have no less than 30 different seed bags stacked on top of the still. More than half of the bags contain only one seed, some types of seeds have 5 different bags tied up, and a couple bags have two different types of seeds inside.

It may be that the lack of a seed-stockpile accepting these seeds is confusing the hauling logic, but I'd say that's still a bug to be fixed.
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-08-06 18:01

"Very aggressive" means the dwarves will aggressively try to put items in containers, so try changing it and see if that helps.
Loci (manager)
2014-08-07 17:04

I think "very aggressive" means that dwarves will try harder to combine things into fewer containers. I can't imagine that making them combine things less aggressively will *reduce* the number of containers required, but I'll give it a try. My point was that, even with a "very aggressive" setting, dwarves are not combining seeds successfully.
Loci (manager)
2014-08-07 20:03

I set the d_init values to "2" (which is the claimed minimum), cleaned out the still, and ordered some fruit brewed. First, a stack of blackberries [5]. Upon completion, three dwarves ran up carrying bags--two grabbed two seeds and the third only got one seed. So now I have three bags of blackberry seeds. Next was some blueberries [5]--only two runners/bags this time. Grapes [5]--all 5 seeds made it into the same bag. Blackberries [5] again--two pickups using two of the already-assigned blackberry seed bags. Blackberries [5] yet again--three pickups using the three blackberry seed bags. Blueberries [5] again--two pickups using the two blueberry bags.

After brewing three types of fruit, my dwarves managed to restrain themselves to only using six bags to store the seeds. Ideally, I'd be able to turn off seed production for these fruits on the 'z' kitchen screen, avoid this whole problem, and get on with the fun parts of the game. Next best would be having piles of bare seeds sitting in the still until I create a stockpile or order them dumped. Third best would be storing the seeds from three types of fruit into three bags. A distant and unacceptable fourth is using several times as many jobs and bags to collect those seeds by ones and twos.
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-08-09 19:36
edited on: 2014-08-09 19:38

With that new information, how would the buggy behavior best be described?

Loci (manager)
2014-08-11 11:33
edited on: 2014-08-11 11:38

I still don't like dwarves automatically wasting bags to store worthless unstockpiled seeds, but I like them wasting multiple bags to do it even less.

Buggy behavior:

0.)Dwarves generate and retain hundreds of unusable seeds, instead of simply disposing of them (i.e. not creating them in-game)
1.)Dwarves compulsively store seeds in bags, even when no stockpile accepts those seeds
2.)Dwarves perform multiple "Store item in bag" jobs for a single batch of seeds generated by a still

Footkerchief (manager)
2015-01-24 14:45

Is this problem still present in the latest version?
Loci (manager)
2015-02-09 14:01


0.)Dwarves still generate and retain hundreds of unusable seeds, instead of simply disposing of them (i.e. not creating them in-game)
1.)Dwarves still compulsively store seeds in bags, even when no stockpile accepts those seeds
2.)Dwarves still perform multiple "Store item in bag" jobs for a single batch of seeds generated by a still

Bug 2 seems to be tied to to the "no stockpile accepts the seeds" condition as well; if a stockpile exists then a bag from that stockpile can collect and store all the seeds. If no stockpile exists, then multiple jobs are created, resulting in multiple bags used.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2014-08-06 02:26 Loci New Issue
2014-08-06 07:39 Footkerchief Note Added: 0028444
2014-08-06 07:39 Footkerchief Assigned To => Footkerchief
2014-08-06 07:39 Footkerchief Status new => needs feedback
2014-08-06 13:04 Loci Note Added: 0028480
2014-08-06 13:04 Loci Status needs feedback => assigned
2014-08-06 13:16 Dwarfu Note Added: 0028482
2014-08-06 16:00 Footkerchief Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?
2014-08-06 16:01 Footkerchief Note Added: 0028495
2014-08-06 17:07 Loci Note Added: 0028499
2014-08-06 18:01 Footkerchief Note Added: 0028500
2014-08-07 17:04 Loci Note Added: 0028546
2014-08-07 18:17 Footkerchief Relationship added has duplicate 0004349
2014-08-07 20:03 Loci Note Added: 0028560
2014-08-09 19:36 Footkerchief Note Added: 0028697
2014-08-09 19:36 Footkerchief Status assigned => resolved
2014-08-09 19:36 Footkerchief Resolution open => no change required
2014-08-09 19:38 Footkerchief Note Edited: 0028697 View Revisions
2014-08-09 19:39 Footkerchief Status resolved => needs feedback
2014-08-09 19:39 Footkerchief Resolution no change required => open
2014-08-11 11:33 Loci Note Added: 0028817
2014-08-11 11:33 Loci Status needs feedback => assigned
2014-08-11 11:34 Loci Note Edited: 0028817 View Revisions
2014-08-11 11:38 Loci Note Edited: 0028817 View Revisions
2014-11-09 14:26 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0008533
2015-01-24 14:45 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0008091
2015-01-24 14:45 Footkerchief Note Added: 0032068
2015-01-24 14:45 Footkerchief Status assigned => needs feedback
2015-01-24 14:46 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0008760
2015-02-09 14:01 Loci Note Added: 0032198
2015-02-09 14:01 Loci Status needs feedback => assigned
2016-07-13 20:37 Loci Relationship added has duplicate 0009346

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