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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0008088Dwarf FortressCombat -- Generalpublic2014-08-20 11:072019-12-17 19:17
Assigned To 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.40.08 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0008088: Flails (and Mauls) extremely ineffective when opponent wears metal helms, even copper.
DescriptionAll types of metal Flails bruises the head's skin or deflects for several pages, but can not cause pulping when unconscious entities are wearing any kind of metal helm. The only reliable way to kill an unconscious entity wearing a helm is via kicking and punching the head.

This can lead to a full squad of silver flail-equipped dwarves being unable to kill a single copper helmed goblin, before all of them passing out.

The same with is true with mauls. Mauls can eventually pulp but only after the mauler passes out a few dozen times.
Steps To ReproduceArena Fights.

10 Dwarves with flails (silver, bronze, steel, etc.). Also with full steel body armor but without helms, against 1 fully copper armored, flail goblin.

The 10 dwarves will pass out trying to smash the unconscious goblin in the head. They will all eventually be slain by the single flail goblin.

Additional InformationMaces and War Hammers works fine. Its just these two blunt weapons that seems to be useless against helms.
TagsNo tags attached.
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-  Notes
Talvieno (reporter)
2014-08-20 11:32
edited on: 2014-08-20 11:33

I can second that mauls seem useless for some reason, even silver mauls against unarmored foes.

Flixus (reporter)
2019-12-16 18:03

Paraphrasing the wiki: ( [^])

"If the attack is blunt [...] it is then subjected to this test:

2 * weaponsize * weapons Impact Yield > Contact area * armor material's density

Failure means the attack bounces off."

The following calculations are for flails.
If we calculate the left side with the highest possible result (steel):
2 * 500 * 1.51 = 1510
If we calculate the right side with one of the lowest possible results excluding aluminium, adamantine and divine metal (Zinc):
200 * 7.13 = 1426

We now see that with the best possible value on left side it barely won't bounce of the softest armor.

So it's perhaps not a gamebreaking bug but more of a quite big balance issue (that most never run into).
Shonai_Dweller (reporter)
2019-12-17 19:17
edited on: 2019-12-19 05:43

Since this bug was posted, force was added to the game to address issues like this. Likely it's irrelevant now.

--edit after testing.
Yeah, tested with the above parameters. Goblin was crushed by the force of the many flail blows. After falling over the dwarves removed his helmet, his shirt and his leggings(!) using more new techniques since this bug was posted and smashed his head in.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2014-08-20 11:07 clownwolf New Issue
2014-08-20 11:32 Talvieno Note Added: 0029369
2014-08-20 11:33 Talvieno Note Edited: 0029369 View Revisions
2019-12-16 18:03 Flixus Note Added: 0039619
2019-12-17 19:17 Shonai_Dweller Note Added: 0039620
2019-12-19 05:43 Shonai_Dweller Note Edited: 0039620 View Revisions

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