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|0009176||Dwarf Fortress||Dwarf Mode -- Reclaim||public||2015-12-02 16:27||2019-12-16 06:18|
|Assigned To||Toady One|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0009176: Lots of 'other' units appear after retiring fortress (merchants/pack animals/now hostile visitors)|
|Description||After retiring and unretiring a fortress, I saw lots of units scattered everywhere.|
Among them were merchants and pack animals. Most of units listed as 'Hostile', but don't attack and don't do anything at all.
I did same thing with few other forts. There were about 20 units in a new fort, and 200 in fort copied from 40.24.
Even more units appear when I visit retired fortress with an adventurer.
|Additional Information||It seems to happen when there's an active tavern (don't know about temples/libraries) when fort is being retired.|
|Tags||retire, retire fort, visitors|
Way to observe the bug:
- Load save http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11331 [^] (region1)
- Look at unit list
- Retire the fortress
- Unretire the fortress
- Look at unit list
Can be repeated multiple times, each time there will be more 'hostile' units than the previous time.
If you start an adventuer and come to fort's location, you can also find merchants and their pack animals.
|It seems to me that visitors, who come to the fortress while it is retired, don't ever leave the place.|
Confirming. There's an army of merchants from various caravans from various seasons (way beyond the couple weeks the fort was retired for) - elves, dwarves, humans in big numbers. They tend to stay in one place and do absolutely nothing, be it in the middle of the fort or down in the caverns. In addition there's a whole ton of deceased wagons in the unit list.
Also, all the tavern visitors appear as "Hostile" in the unit list, although don't seem to start trouble.
Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/wmLd6 [^]
Save: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11357 [^]
edited on: 2015-12-07 10:53
I can confirm this as well, I recall this being around in the previous version too.
I just avoided the issue back then. Currently my most recent fort's behavior was identical to both the posted files, though I did have a rather unhappy adventurer go beserk in my tavern.
EDIT: Here is my save detailing this bug: http://dffd.bay12games.com/download.php?id=11407&f=region1-OddNobleMiscBugs.zip [^]
|Also might be related to 0008147.|
|This just happened to me, complete with live wagons and whatnot. When I retired my fortress had about 40 visitors, when I came back two weeks later there were over 300 units in the other screen, most of them random merchants and pack animals. It made looking at stocks a pain because all the caravan items were listed there, but the caravans still showed up as normal.|
Saves from 0009212:
Saves from 0009404:
|Reopening per 0009462|
edited on: 2016-01-12 05:14
Save showing bug still present in 42.04
Started fortress in 42.04. Retired, played adventurer, retired adventurer at fortress. Unretired fortress.
Taffer tileset. No mods except adding [CANOPENDOORS] for gorlaks which shouldn't effect this.
Explosion of visitors (was three at time of retire).
About half of the visitors are marked as hostile.
A group of merchants has joined the citizen list (but cannot be assigned labours or occupations).
I can't see any wagons around, but reading the merchants thoughts reveals some of them 'didn't feel anything after seeing the wagon die'.
Several wagons are listed as 'missing'
edited on: 2016-01-14 06:45
Below is another save that should demonstrate the issue, at a point just before retirement of the fortress. World was generated and played in 42.04.
Ironhand tileset, no mods except to remove the [ADOPTS_OWNER] tag from cats.
Just retire the fortress, then make an adventurer who is part of the dwarven civ called "The Mighty Works", and starts in the fortress called Wisecanyons. Wander the site a bit, and you should come across merchants, pack animals with equipment still on them, and some live wagons.
You can probably see this by retiring and then just reclaiming the fortress, but I usually make the adventurer and run into the issue. As stated above, visitors are often listed as hostile when the fort is reclaimed, and so on.
Not exactly the exact same issue, but I believe they are very much related.
I recently reclaimed a fort (after initially giving into a siege), and I'm noticing that some visitors that arrive now are marked as hostile. The game will report them as an ambush. The hostile visitors won't path to the fort, but will engage soldiers in combat. I don't have a save demonstrating this issue as of now, but I will try to post one later if the issue happens again. So far it has occurred twice.
This never occurred prior to the reclaim, so I'm thinking the issues are related to that. Also, the hostile visitors don't seem to be members of any particular civilization (one was a macedwarf, the other was a human poet), so I don't think it is related to any civ wars either.
edited on: 2016-04-03 19:47
That very bad bug is still present in 42.06
I was running a 2X2 fortress, with a mix of methods ( 100 max pop, atom smashing nearly every items, quantum stockpile, not digging to the caverns etc... ) despite the fortress was relatively long lived it went on for years with a framerate at +/- 60 fps , allowing time and dwarves to still move fast and so making the game still enjoyable and responsive.
I decided to toy around the adventure mode to retire temporarly my fort and go visit it in adventure mode.
When i got there, it was incredibly slow, near unplayable, so i didn't stayed much longer and went to retire the adventurer.
I then unretired my fort and noticed it was incredibly slow there too, less than 10 fps (from the constant 60 i had when playing)
I looked around and found what was the very likely reason :
on the 177 listed at other, there are +/- 170 merchants that are "hostile" (but not hostile at all in fact, probably the other bug with hostile creature not being hostile at all on the map)
And worse, my max pop was 100, and those 94 additional pop that came out of nowhere is made of more useless merchants.
Every of those stuff destroying obviously the game framerate, making it unplayably slow while it was running very fast and smooth before the retire-unretiring.
save available there :
That fortress and world was created in 42.06 too
edited on: 2016-04-22 18:01
Since this still needs feedback, I'm uploading another save from 42.06 with some additional odd behavior in visitors on un-retire. It's been about 3 years since retirement. I visited once as an adventurer.
This time there's no "hostile" visitors, which is nice but:
1) In the visitors list is a human "Captain of the Guard", a human "Hammerer" and a dwarf "Champion". Legends shows that all three of these visitors were appointed to their positions this year in the nearby Dwarf fortress of Pleatedsacks. Seems like they should be back home doing their jobs rather than hanging out at my tavern.
2) Some of my military mercenaries have reverted to the visitors list. I guess that's to be expected, but rather than leaving, they're current job is "individual combat drill". They're hanging out in the barracks as though they're still part of my military.
Edit: Ah, I was wrong. Further checking shows they actually are still part of my military. Just that they're no longer in the citizen list and presumably that means they're no longer long-term residents? Will they leave the day before a siege?
Save: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11957 [^]
edit 2: In this same save there's one other retired fortress which has a citizens only tavern, an open library and some temples. Unretiring reveals a bunch of military type visitors along with the expected scholars. Looking at them it says they've "Come to relax" with no location specified.
Without a visitor friendly tavern they shouldn't be coming, should they?
The first cavern layer is revealed, so I guess they could be all monster hunters which would be pretty funny.
edited on: 2016-07-02 02:25
Still having this in 0.43.03, adventure mode. Looks like every caravan I'd ever had, carrying stuff I'd sold years ago.
edited on: 2016-08-23 20:54
Still exists in 0.43.05. Retired the Fortress after just a couple of months, visited with an adventurer, and the first-year merchants (who had left prior to retiring the fort) were back hanging around in adventure mode.
Unretired the fort, and the merchants are now (weirdly) listed on the citizens part of the units screen. Their occupation is "merchant", they cannot take labors, like they're visitors or something. They are currently dying of dehydration in the tavern (see save below). Their yaks, loaded with all the trade goods they'd previously brought, were also wandering the map.
Also weirdly, some of my starting seven had gained a whole lot of skills while the fort was retired (for like two weeks). One of my miners is now a hammerer and has a TON of performance skills, some of the others are assigned to noble positions, etc. I assume this is a relic of whatever world updates happen in Adventure Mode, but it is really weird.
Save here, merchants are the guys dehydrating in the tavern: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12375 [^]
Edit/Update: The dwarven-civ merchants just claimed beds in the tavern. Guess the game is treating them like long-term visitors.
edited on: 2016-11-01 09:41
I believe this has a relation to this bug.
0010059: Wild site animals have the same morale ethics [Kill_Enemy Neutral] as entity units if in the same local settled area - http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10059 [^]
I suggest that the remaining units are added to the 'non-feature site population' forcefully, then the units adopt the 'site ethics' of a reclaim site and turn its faction hostile.
Likely joining some kind of group state of the enemy who plundered it/the intended megabeast/ruin occupying force or a generic hostile marauder state, wagons are a kind of animal and also experience this as stated in the relationships, so would be egible to be listed along with sentient units as non local feature site population (cant respawn from the edges).
0008147: Retire with caravan present --> live wagons scattered around site http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=8147 [^]
Taking in site ethics/roles from entities that are occupying might be being done literally, as exampled by this FoTF reply http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159164.msg7188845#msg7188845 [^] about kobolds taking up a site (a deserted human hamlet) and adopting the native job roles.
A topic which Toady addressed in his (September 29, 2016) FoTF response : http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=159164.msg7195424#msg7195424 [^]
|Experiencing this in DF Vanilla 0.43.05, after unretire. Have elf/human caravans (hostile) as well as their pack animals (camels), and human/dwarf scholars (most of which are listed as hostile). When I retired the fortress, I had a library on site.|
edited on: 2018-01-23 04:41
Same thing happening to me in DF 0.44.05. Able to provide more detail at a moment's notice.
Please see the following Images:
And the save game (retire the fort, then spawn there in adventure mode, then bring out of retirement if the lag doesn't kill you in Adventurer mode first):
Saves are much better off uploaded to dffd. This bug's been around a while, may possibly be around several more years. Only makes sense to upload it to the official file server which will always be available for the next 30 years of development.
edited on: 2019-12-18 16:13
So, in an attempt to clear out my fortress after unretiring a couple of times, I dove into dfhack. Turns out that for guests that get into this situation, the resident flag is on and guest is off(so is visitor). If I turn off resident and turn on guest, the units will awaken, go to the tavern to mill about for a while and eventually leave. This makes it similar to https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10288 [^]
So, it seems that somehow these guys are marked as longterm residents but they're not really seen as locals? (If so, this brings its own problems, because apparently your fort is content to hire 200 bards when you're not in charge of it, which is pretty excessive no matter how you turn it.)
Similarly, even when toggling the two flags, these guys still mill about for a season, and given that this can easily double or triple the fort unit count as you left it, this takes a very very long time due to fps crawling to a slow.
My instinct would be to have the default behaviour for units not be hostile, but rather to leave the map as soon as possible if they don't understand what they're supposed to be doing at your fort, especially given it will proly take a very long time until we see finer rule-based control in sites regarding their immigration policies. Anyhow, my 2 cents.
EDIT: I just realized that the 'hostile' behaviour is intended for the cave animal people... This is tricky.
EDIT2: The visitor flag also needs to be set...
EDIT3: While some visitors do leave after being debugged, the majority just keeps milling about, meaning that I end up going from 200 visitors to 130 in 2 years but after that nothing changes.
|2015-12-02 16:27||Hedede||New Issue|
|2015-12-03 06:18||Hedede||Note Added: 0033337|
|2015-12-03 06:21||Hedede||Note Added: 0033338|
|2015-12-03 20:21||uristmcbughunter||Note Added: 0033359|
|2015-12-03 20:48||uristmcbughunter||Issue Monitored: uristmcbughunter|
|2015-12-04 02:25||Hedede||Issue Monitored: Hedede|
|2015-12-06 19:01||Jixijenga||Note Added: 0033546|
|2015-12-06 19:01||Jixijenga||Issue Monitored: Jixijenga|
|2015-12-07 10:53||Jixijenga||Note Edited: 0033546||View Revisions|
|2015-12-10 09:00||Hedede||Tag Attached: Fortress Retirement|
|2015-12-10 09:02||Hedede||Tag Attached: visitors|
|2015-12-10 09:05||Hedede||Tag Attached: retire. retire fort|
|2015-12-10 09:05||Hedede||Tag Detached: retire. retire fort|
|2015-12-10 09:05||Hedede||Tag Detached: Fortress Retirement|
|2015-12-10 09:05||Hedede||Tag Attached: retire|
|2015-12-10 09:06||Hedede||Tag Attached: retire fort|
|2015-12-10 09:07||Hedede||Note Added: 0033721|
|2015-12-20 08:47||Glloyd||Note Added: 0034071|
|2015-12-22 18:17||Dwarfu||Relationship added||related to 0008147|
|2015-12-22 18:18||Dwarfu||Summary||Lots of 'other' units appear after retiring fortress => Lots of 'other' units appear after retiring fortress (merchants/pack animals/now hostile visitors)|
|2015-12-22 18:19||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0009393|
|2015-12-22 18:21||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0009298|
|2015-12-22 18:22||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0009212|
|2015-12-22 18:23||Dwarfu||Note Added: 0034145|
|2015-12-22 18:23||Dwarfu||Sticky Issue||No => Yes|
|2015-12-22 18:23||Dwarfu||Assigned To||=> Dwarfu|
|2015-12-22 18:23||Dwarfu||Status||new => confirmed|
|2015-12-22 18:25||Dwarfu||Note Added: 0034146|
|2015-12-22 18:26||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0009404|
|2015-12-22 18:26||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0009337|
|2015-12-22 18:27||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0009339|
|2015-12-22 18:33||Dwarfu||Issue Monitored: Glloyd|
|2015-12-22 18:34||Dwarfu||Issue Monitored: skaltum|
|2015-12-22 18:34||Dwarfu||Issue Monitored: Walkabout|
|2015-12-22 18:35||Dwarfu||Issue Monitored: CptMayday|
|2015-12-22 18:35||Dwarfu||Issue Monitored: Spiderking50|
|2015-12-24 13:21||Toady One||Status||confirmed => resolved|
|2015-12-24 13:21||Toady One||Fixed in Version||=> Next Version|
|2015-12-24 13:21||Toady One||Resolution||open => fixed|
|2015-12-24 13:21||Toady One||Assigned To||Dwarfu => Toady One|
|2015-12-27 13:38||Dwarfu||Sticky Issue||Yes => No|
|2016-01-12 03:49||lethosor||Note Added: 0034406|
|2016-01-12 03:49||lethosor||Status||resolved => needs feedback|
|2016-01-12 03:49||lethosor||Resolution||fixed => reopened|
|2016-01-12 03:50||lethosor||Relationship added||has duplicate 0009462|
|2016-01-12 05:08||Shonai_Dweller||Note Added: 0034408|
|2016-01-12 05:11||Shonai_Dweller||Note Edited: 0034408||View Revisions|
|2016-01-12 05:12||Shonai_Dweller||Note Edited: 0034408||View Revisions|
|2016-01-12 05:14||Shonai_Dweller||Note Edited: 0034408||View Revisions|
|2016-01-13 12:21||Walkabout||Note Added: 0034415|
|2016-01-13 12:21||Walkabout||Note Edited: 0034415||View Revisions|
|2016-01-14 06:45||Walkabout||Note Edited: 0034415||View Revisions|
|2016-02-16 12:39||Witty||Note Added: 0034683|
|2016-04-03 19:46||Robsoie||Note Added: 0034974|
|2016-04-03 19:47||Robsoie||Note Edited: 0034974||View Revisions|
|2016-04-17 04:20||Shonai_Dweller||Note Added: 0035020|
|2016-04-17 04:46||Shonai_Dweller||Note Edited: 0035020||View Revisions|
|2016-04-22 18:01||Shonai_Dweller||Note Edited: 0035020||View Revisions|
|2016-07-02 02:24||Bumber||Note Added: 0035542|
|2016-07-02 02:25||Bumber||Note Edited: 0035542||View Revisions|
|2016-08-23 20:21||keaman||Note Added: 0035805|
|2016-08-23 20:54||keaman||Note Edited: 0035805||View Revisions|
|2016-11-01 08:50||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0036018|
|2016-11-01 09:41||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0036018||View Revisions|
|2017-01-12 20:49||Strato1||Note Added: 0036168|
|2017-01-13 07:47||lethosor||Status||needs feedback => acknowledged|
|2017-01-13 07:47||lethosor||Fixed in Version||0.42.04 =>|
|2017-01-15 15:30||Huntthetroll||Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll|
|2017-02-27 04:46||Loci||Relationship added||has duplicate 0010152|
|2018-01-23 04:38||Encrtia||Note Added: 0037696|
|2018-01-23 04:41||Encrtia||Note Edited: 0037696||View Revisions|
|2018-01-23 13:11||Shonai_Dweller||Note Added: 0037697|
|2018-04-03 14:25||Loci||Relationship added||has duplicate 0010690|
|2019-12-16 06:18||therahedwig||Note Added: 0039618|
|2019-12-16 06:55||therahedwig||Note Edited: 0039618||View Revisions|
|2019-12-16 07:18||therahedwig||Note Edited: 0039618||View Revisions|
|2019-12-18 16:13||therahedwig||Note Edited: 0039618||View Revisions|
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