0009207: Dwarves seem to be completely apathetic towards friendly dwarves and other sentient creatures dying.

(0033375)
burts5556 (reporter)
2015-12-04 05:23

So i watched the thoughts of some other dwarves, and some do seem to "horrified" after seeing the dwarf die. Perhaps this is intentional?

(0033376)
clanl (reporter)
2015-12-04 05:26

What kind of personality does the observing dwarf have?

(0033377)
burts5556 (reporter)
2015-12-04 05:36

The personality traits seem random. For example my expedition leader doesn't feel anything after seeing his lover die. This doesn't really seem right.

(0033378)
burts5556 (reporter)
2015-12-04 05:47

Ok, this definately seems like a bug. Another werechamelon attacked, and this time murdered a whole bunch of dwarves. The ones that were left alive say they don't feel anything after they saw their spouses and other family members get killed.

(0033460)
thvaz (reporter)
2015-12-05 08:49
edited on: 2015-12-05 08:49

Possibly related, dwarves doesn't seem to care if ghosts are haunting them either.

(0033461)
Talvieno (reporter)
2015-12-05 08:55

After running some experiments, I can add that there is a chance of the observer feeling horrified - but it seems to be highly rare. In fact, it appears to work like so:

- the majority of dwarves will feel absolutely nothing after seeing something die
- a select few dwarves will feel horrified. If a dwarf is one of these, they will ALWAYS feel horrified.
- There will never be an instance where a dwarf feels anywhere between horror and apathy. If a dwarf feels one way about a death, they will always feel that way about death.

For these reasons, I think it's not so much an actual bug, and more something that simply needs tweaked.

I'd also like to mention that this may be related to 0007161, as it seems to be part of the same issue.

(0033516)
Toady One (administrator)
2015-12-06 14:45

Are they drunk? You can see it raise their fearlessness trait in the personality paragraph. This has had the side effect of negating all these horrified thoughts, and it's a bit extreme right now.

(0033629)
burts5556 (reporter)
2015-12-08 05:56

Yeah, this does seem to be the case.

(0036941)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2017-11-23 18:12

Coupled with (seemingly pernament) personality changes post-drinking alcohol 0009812 their resolve to be fearless has made them completely unemotional 0009074 even when faced with deliberately engineered tortures by the player made to break them.

(0039865)
Talvieno (reporter)
2020-02-04 12:07

I don't see any sign that this is still a thing. In 47.01, I've seen dwarves range from "didn't care" to "uneasy" to "horrified", depending on personality traits and how drunk they are.

(0040148)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2020-02-20 15:35

Re-affirming @Talvieno I haven't seen total apathy that much on 47.03, personal relation to the subject and the size & number of corpses they are exposed to are also taken into consideration. Seeing other dead dwarves or limbs of sentients can vary from top of the scale horror & trauma to mild uneasyness, but small kobold theif corpses create uneasyness generally, and a full grown stray yak anecdotally collapsing in the meeting hall didn't even create any discipline experience or negative thought from all citizens in full view around it.

So possibly fixed without a bit more fine tuning?

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2015-12-04 05:10	burts5556	New Issue
2015-12-04 05:23	burts5556	Note Added: 0033375
2015-12-04 05:26	clanl	Note Added: 0033376
2015-12-04 05:36	burts5556	Note Added: 0033377
2015-12-04 05:47	burts5556	Note Added: 0033378
2015-12-04 11:29	Talvieno	Issue Monitored: Talvieno
2015-12-04 19:56	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0009208
2015-12-05 08:49	thvaz	Note Added: 0033460
2015-12-05 08:49	thvaz	Note Edited: 0033460	View Revisions
2015-12-05 08:55	Talvieno	Note Added: 0033461
2015-12-06 14:45	Toady One	Note Added: 0033516
2015-12-08 05:56	burts5556	Note Added: 0033629
2017-11-23 18:12	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0036941
2018-04-16 18:04	Huntthetroll	Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll
2020-02-04 12:07	Talvieno	Note Added: 0039865
2020-02-20 15:35	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0040148

Notes
(0033375) burts5556 (reporter) 2015-12-04 05:23	So i watched the thoughts of some other dwarves, and some do seem to "horrified" after seeing the dwarf die. Perhaps this is intentional?

(0033376) clanl (reporter) 2015-12-04 05:26	What kind of personality does the observing dwarf have?

(0033377) burts5556 (reporter) 2015-12-04 05:36	The personality traits seem random. For example my expedition leader doesn't feel anything after seeing his lover die. This doesn't really seem right.

(0033378) burts5556 (reporter) 2015-12-04 05:47	Ok, this definately seems like a bug. Another werechamelon attacked, and this time murdered a whole bunch of dwarves. The ones that were left alive say they don't feel anything after they saw their spouses and other family members get killed.

(0033460) thvaz (reporter) 2015-12-05 08:49 edited on: 2015-12-05 08:49	Possibly related, dwarves doesn't seem to care if ghosts are haunting them either.

(0033461) Talvieno (reporter) 2015-12-05 08:55	After running some experiments, I can add that there is a chance of the observer feeling horrified - but it seems to be highly rare. In fact, it appears to work like so: - the majority of dwarves will feel absolutely nothing after seeing something die - a select few dwarves will feel horrified. If a dwarf is one of these, they will ALWAYS feel horrified. - There will never be an instance where a dwarf feels anywhere between horror and apathy. If a dwarf feels one way about a death, they will always feel that way about death. For these reasons, I think it's not so much an actual bug, and more something that simply needs tweaked. I'd also like to mention that this may be related to 0007161, as it seems to be part of the same issue.

(0033516) Toady One (administrator) 2015-12-06 14:45	Are they drunk? You can see it raise their fearlessness trait in the personality paragraph. This has had the side effect of negating all these horrified thoughts, and it's a bit extreme right now.

(0033629) burts5556 (reporter) 2015-12-08 05:56	Yeah, this does seem to be the case.

(0036941) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2017-11-23 18:12	Coupled with (seemingly pernament) personality changes post-drinking alcohol 0009812 their resolve to be fearless has made them completely unemotional 0009074 even when faced with deliberately engineered tortures by the player made to break them.

(0039865) Talvieno (reporter) 2020-02-04 12:07	I don't see any sign that this is still a thing. In 47.01, I've seen dwarves range from "didn't care" to "uneasy" to "horrified", depending on personality traits and how drunk they are.

(0040148) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2020-02-20 15:35	Re-affirming @Talvieno I haven't seen total apathy that much on 47.03, personal relation to the subject and the size & number of corpses they are exposed to are also taken into consideration. Seeing other dead dwarves or limbs of sentients can vary from top of the scale horror & trauma to mild uneasyness, but small kobold theif corpses create uneasyness generally, and a full grown stray yak anecdotally collapsing in the meeting hall didn't even create any discipline experience or negative thought from all citizens in full view around it. So possibly fixed without a bit more fine tuning?