0007185: Horrified merchants immediately destroy their wagons, pack their goods and leave the depot

(0026083)
Rafal99 (reporter)
2014-07-12 22:14
edited on: 2014-07-12 22:14

I will try to make save where it is easily reproducable, because at my current one it is very hard to kill the Raven Men, as they keep escaping from my only marksdwarf.

(0026320)
JoeJoe (reporter)
2014-07-14 07:31
edited on: 2014-07-14 07:40

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8964 [^]
here's a save, where the merchants just left without a warning. two wagons are "missing" and all trade goods have disappeared. unfortunately I didn't think of doing a backup of the autosave at the beginning of autumn.

As you can see they arrived without an outpost liaison, but I'm not sure if there were any other dwarf merchants. it could be that they've already left the map. and maybe they were also carrying the items or something.

edit: i should have mentioned, I don't think this was triggered by the merchants being horrified but it's probably related.

(0026964)
Bouchart (reporter)
2014-07-19 12:49
edited on: 2014-07-19 12:53

I've had this problem in 4003, but there were no wild creatures near the trade depot as far as I could tell.

This might have to do with traders bringing too many wagons, since it never happens early in any of my forts' existence.

I should also add that all of the wagons deconstruct on the same tile.

(0027499)
Button (reporter)
2014-07-25 08:01

I had this problem with a corpse stockpile underneath the entry-rampway. When the wagon moved up the ramp, the dwarf driving it went through the wall, saw the corpses, wagon destruct.

(0027513)
int_ua (reporter)
2014-07-25 10:53

That's a wagon wood source BTW.

(0027516)
Talvieno (reporter)
2014-07-25 11:35

This doesn't always happen. I had elves killed the first year, and their corpses remained at the depot. The next year, one of the elven traders happened to look at the skeletons of the elves. She fell to her knees, saying the regular stuff, but I was still able to trade with the elves.

(0027674)
Deboche (reporter)
2014-07-26 22:50

I didn't get wagon destruction but I just had a case of merchants leaving from getting horrified with my refuse pile

(0027990)
Drazinononda (reporter)
2014-07-30 16:42

"wagons themselves become horrified and explode"

I love this game!

But yes, I had the same thing happen, except the fighting took place while the merchants were on their way in to the depot, and all the wagons deconstructed. The merchants and pack animals continued on to the depot. I got all the messages as usual -- "the merchants will be leaving soon," "the merchants have departed" -- but after they supposedly "departed" they didn't pack up or make any other moves. In fact, the pack animals were out wandering around in my pasture and the merchants wouldn't even mill about the depot, they just stood there. Eventually I deconstructed the depot to get them to leave, and they all wandered off the map individually.

(0028924)
Rafal99 (reporter)
2014-08-12 23:02

Gigaz posted this save in 0007975:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9367 [^]

(0029399)
Littlegeek (reporter)
2014-08-20 21:12

This save has the aftermath of a wagon dying and the merchants leaving; a partial mutilated goblin corpse is near the path the wagons would take. I tend to favor the "wagons themselves become horrified and explode" explanation as there was a combat report with a merchant falling down the slope next to where the wagon died, and it had no speech.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9471 [^]

(0029551)
Aiwok (reporter)
2014-08-23 17:11
edited on: 2014-08-23 17:14

I recently had a wereelk coming around but caravan guard + militia killed it quick and without any successful counteratack. Still all 5 wagons in the depot died. Also I found two two piles of merchant stuff flying around near my refuse/corpse stockpile. These must have been dropped even before the wereelk came. If i didnt had 7 wagons coming those might been dropped by some scared merchants without wagon? Also I got wagon wood logs from the dead wagons but those seem to disappear or be renamed - maybe once my dwarves stockpile them.
I still have a save with the wereelk just appaering (5 wagons still alive in depot) If its helpful I coud try to upload somewhere?

(0029837)
Jack9 (reporter)
2014-08-31 14:28

Dwarf body deep in river outside walls of my fortress. Merchants passing over bridge become horrified, deconstructs most wagons (each at different locations), walks off map. Final wagon deconstructed on their way out before they reached edge).

(0032572)
Mechanique (reporter)
2015-04-15 03:45

Had the same happen twice, to both human and dwarf caravans.
Wagon traveled through (sparsely filled with remains of local wildlife) refuse stockpile and deconstructed in the middle of it, all other merchants left the map immediately.
Easy to reproduce - have wagons travel through area filled with body parts.

(0032588)
MrC (reporter)
2015-04-19 13:58

I have this problem but the merchants get stuck when their wagons die so they just hang out wherever they were when the wagons die and never leave the map.

(0032590)
Detros (manager)
2015-04-19 14:03

@Mrc: If your merchants are not leaving, it is rather something like 0005452, "One merchant killed, surviving merchants are stuck forever" or 0007964, "traders do not leave map" than this one.

(0032638)
MrC (reporter)
2015-05-04 15:27

@Detros: My be but no merchants are killed just the wagons.

(0032713)
Qrox (reporter)
2015-05-23 07:41

Freakish weather (in my case, raining blood) will also cause merchants to abandon their wagons. Even if only the draught animals got horrified the wagon will still get scuttled. I wonder how the animals shook off the yokes.

(0034469)
Button (reporter)
2016-01-19 08:37

This seems particularly quick to happen since 42.03 or so. It used to be that wagons would only scuttle if I let them near sapient corpses, but lately they'll break up just from seeing wild animals that aren't [BENIGN].

(0034499)
KingMurdoc (reporter)
2016-01-21 13:37

Can confirm it was still present in 42.04 at least. I didn't get a single dwarven caravan reaching my depot; they'd pretty much detonate upon entering the map.

(0034947)
Killzemallgod (reporter)
2016-03-31 22:10
edited on: 2016-04-01 02:33

Happened to me and caused them to stop showing up, wagon went missing and seems to have stopped mechants from showing up.

(0038189)
sionlife (reporter)
2018-04-21 04:37

Confirmed this is happening in 44.09. I have embarked in an area where there are sometimes evil clouds. This makes being on the surface a bit perilous.

So a caravan arrives to the depot. The merchants are stuck unloading. In fact they have been unloading for almost a month and are about to leave. I think something on the map scared one of the wagons which never got to the depot but I am not sure. The has happened a few times now on this embark although a I managed to trade with a few other caravans successfully. In the save file below, you can see the 'merchants still unloading' message.

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13697 [^]

(0040858)
Treah (reporter)
2021-01-13 14:52
edited on: 2021-01-13 16:01

I just got something similar happen in my game 47.04. I am unsure what happened exactly but I have merchants stuck at the depot and I can not move goods to the depot or trade with them as it says there are no merchants at the depot. However when attempting to deconstruct it I then get a message saying there are merchants.

I noticed that some of them are laying on the ground so I think that might be what is causing the issue. I can upload a save if needed.
For now I think i can use DFHACK to make them stand up again.

Here is the save file
https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=15381 [^]

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2014-07-12 22:02	Rafal99	New Issue
2014-07-12 22:03	Rafal99	Issue Monitored: Rafal99
2014-07-12 22:14	Rafal99	Note Added: 0026083
2014-07-12 22:14	Rafal99	Note Edited: 0026083	View Revisions
2014-07-12 22:14	Rafal99	Note Edited: 0026083	View Revisions
2014-07-13 23:12	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0006651
2014-07-14 07:31	JoeJoe	Note Added: 0026320
2014-07-14 07:40	JoeJoe	Note Edited: 0026320	View Revisions
2014-07-14 08:55	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007133
2014-07-17 07:35	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007414
2014-07-19 12:49	Bouchart	Note Added: 0026964
2014-07-19 12:53	Bouchart	Note Edited: 0026964	View Revisions
2014-07-23 18:26	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007595
2014-07-25 08:01	Button	Note Added: 0027499
2014-07-25 10:32	int_ua	Issue Monitored: int_ua
2014-07-25 10:53	int_ua	Note Added: 0027513
2014-07-25 11:35	Talvieno	Note Added: 0027516
2014-07-26 22:50	Deboche	Note Added: 0027674
2014-07-30 16:42	Drazinononda	Note Added: 0027990
2014-08-06 07:44	Kanddak	Note Added: 0028446
2014-08-06 07:46	Kanddak	Note Deleted: 0028446
2014-08-06 07:55	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007741
2014-08-06 07:56	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007807
2014-08-06 08:48	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0007807
2014-08-06 08:48	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: dglidden
2014-08-06 08:49	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007435
2014-08-06 13:23	Dwarfu	Relationship added	related to 0007161
2014-08-11 08:37	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007952
2014-08-12 23:02	Rafal99	Note Added: 0028924
2014-08-20 21:12	Littlegeek	Note Added: 0029399
2014-08-23 17:11	Aiwok	Note Added: 0029551
2014-08-23 17:14	Aiwok	Note Edited: 0029551	View Revisions
2014-08-24 07:21	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-08-24 07:21	Footkerchief	Status	new => confirmed
2014-08-31 14:28	Jack9	Note Added: 0029837
2014-09-05 08:19	4maskwolf	Issue Monitored: 4maskwolf
2014-09-06 09:37	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0008249
2014-09-08 19:07	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0008249
2014-12-23 18:43	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0008659
2015-04-15 03:45	Mechanique	Note Added: 0032572
2015-04-19 13:58	MrC	Note Added: 0032588
2015-04-19 14:03	Detros	Note Added: 0032590
2015-04-19 14:25	Afghani84	Issue Monitored: Afghani84
2015-05-04 15:27	MrC	Note Added: 0032638
2015-05-23 07:41	Qrox	Note Added: 0032713
2016-01-19 08:37	Button	Note Added: 0034469
2016-01-19 20:17	Dwarfu	Additional Information Updated	View Revisions
2016-01-19 20:18	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0009332
2016-01-19 20:18	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: Sinakus
2016-01-21 13:37	KingMurdoc	Note Added: 0034499
2016-03-31 22:10	Killzemallgod	Note Added: 0034947
2016-04-01 02:33	Killzemallgod	Note Edited: 0034947	View Revisions
2016-05-16 16:31	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0008818
2016-05-16 16:54	Dwarfu	Relationship added	related to 0009594
2016-05-20 06:52	Hedede	Issue Monitored: Hedede
2017-06-25 15:59	Loci	Relationship added	has duplicate 0010256
2017-06-25 16:21	Loci	Relationship added	has duplicate 0009958
2018-04-16 17:26	Huntthetroll	Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll
2018-04-21 04:37	sionlife	Note Added: 0038189
2021-01-13 14:52	Treah	Note Added: 0040858
2021-01-13 16:01	Treah	Note Edited: 0040858	View Revisions

Notes
(0026083) Rafal99 (reporter) 2014-07-12 22:14 edited on: 2014-07-12 22:14	I will try to make save where it is easily reproducable, because at my current one it is very hard to kill the Raven Men, as they keep escaping from my only marksdwarf.

(0026320) JoeJoe (reporter) 2014-07-14 07:31 edited on: 2014-07-14 07:40	http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8964 [^] here's a save, where the merchants just left without a warning. two wagons are "missing" and all trade goods have disappeared. unfortunately I didn't think of doing a backup of the autosave at the beginning of autumn. As you can see they arrived without an outpost liaison, but I'm not sure if there were any other dwarf merchants. it could be that they've already left the map. and maybe they were also carrying the items or something. edit: i should have mentioned, I don't think this was triggered by the merchants being horrified but it's probably related.

(0026964) Bouchart (reporter) 2014-07-19 12:49 edited on: 2014-07-19 12:53	I've had this problem in 4003, but there were no wild creatures near the trade depot as far as I could tell. This might have to do with traders bringing too many wagons, since it never happens early in any of my forts' existence. I should also add that all of the wagons deconstruct on the same tile.

(0027499) Button (reporter) 2014-07-25 08:01	I had this problem with a corpse stockpile underneath the entry-rampway. When the wagon moved up the ramp, the dwarf driving it went through the wall, saw the corpses, wagon destruct.

(0027513) int_ua (reporter) 2014-07-25 10:53	That's a wagon wood source BTW.

(0027516) Talvieno (reporter) 2014-07-25 11:35	This doesn't always happen. I had elves killed the first year, and their corpses remained at the depot. The next year, one of the elven traders happened to look at the skeletons of the elves. She fell to her knees, saying the regular stuff, but I was still able to trade with the elves.

(0027674) Deboche (reporter) 2014-07-26 22:50	I didn't get wagon destruction but I just had a case of merchants leaving from getting horrified with my refuse pile

(0027990) Drazinononda (reporter) 2014-07-30 16:42	"wagons themselves become horrified and explode" I love this game! But yes, I had the same thing happen, except the fighting took place while the merchants were on their way in to the depot, and all the wagons deconstructed. The merchants and pack animals continued on to the depot. I got all the messages as usual -- "the merchants will be leaving soon," "the merchants have departed" -- but after they supposedly "departed" they didn't pack up or make any other moves. In fact, the pack animals were out wandering around in my pasture and the merchants wouldn't even mill about the depot, they just stood there. Eventually I deconstructed the depot to get them to leave, and they all wandered off the map individually.

(0028924) Rafal99 (reporter) 2014-08-12 23:02	Gigaz posted this save in 0007975: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9367 [^]

(0029399) Littlegeek (reporter) 2014-08-20 21:12	This save has the aftermath of a wagon dying and the merchants leaving; a partial mutilated goblin corpse is near the path the wagons would take. I tend to favor the "wagons themselves become horrified and explode" explanation as there was a combat report with a merchant falling down the slope next to where the wagon died, and it had no speech. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9471 [^]

(0029551) Aiwok (reporter) 2014-08-23 17:11 edited on: 2014-08-23 17:14	I recently had a wereelk coming around but caravan guard + militia killed it quick and without any successful counteratack. Still all 5 wagons in the depot died. Also I found two two piles of merchant stuff flying around near my refuse/corpse stockpile. These must have been dropped even before the wereelk came. If i didnt had 7 wagons coming those might been dropped by some scared merchants without wagon? Also I got wagon wood logs from the dead wagons but those seem to disappear or be renamed - maybe once my dwarves stockpile them. I still have a save with the wereelk just appaering (5 wagons still alive in depot) If its helpful I coud try to upload somewhere?

(0029837) Jack9 (reporter) 2014-08-31 14:28	Dwarf body deep in river outside walls of my fortress. Merchants passing over bridge become horrified, deconstructs most wagons (each at different locations), walks off map. Final wagon deconstructed on their way out before they reached edge).

(0032572) Mechanique (reporter) 2015-04-15 03:45	Had the same happen twice, to both human and dwarf caravans. Wagon traveled through (sparsely filled with remains of local wildlife) refuse stockpile and deconstructed in the middle of it, all other merchants left the map immediately. Easy to reproduce - have wagons travel through area filled with body parts.

(0032588) MrC (reporter) 2015-04-19 13:58	I have this problem but the merchants get stuck when their wagons die so they just hang out wherever they were when the wagons die and never leave the map.

(0032590) Detros (manager) 2015-04-19 14:03	@Mrc: If your merchants are not leaving, it is rather something like 0005452, "One merchant killed, surviving merchants are stuck forever" or 0007964, "traders do not leave map" than this one.

(0032638) MrC (reporter) 2015-05-04 15:27	@Detros: My be but no merchants are killed just the wagons.

(0032713) Qrox (reporter) 2015-05-23 07:41	Freakish weather (in my case, raining blood) will also cause merchants to abandon their wagons. Even if only the draught animals got horrified the wagon will still get scuttled. I wonder how the animals shook off the yokes.

(0034469) Button (reporter) 2016-01-19 08:37	This seems particularly quick to happen since 42.03 or so. It used to be that wagons would only scuttle if I let them near sapient corpses, but lately they'll break up just from seeing wild animals that aren't [BENIGN].

(0034499) KingMurdoc (reporter) 2016-01-21 13:37	Can confirm it was still present in 42.04 at least. I didn't get a single dwarven caravan reaching my depot; they'd pretty much detonate upon entering the map.

(0034947) Killzemallgod (reporter) 2016-03-31 22:10 edited on: 2016-04-01 02:33	Happened to me and caused them to stop showing up, wagon went missing and seems to have stopped mechants from showing up.

(0038189) sionlife (reporter) 2018-04-21 04:37	Confirmed this is happening in 44.09. I have embarked in an area where there are sometimes evil clouds. This makes being on the surface a bit perilous. So a caravan arrives to the depot. The merchants are stuck unloading. In fact they have been unloading for almost a month and are about to leave. I think something on the map scared one of the wagons which never got to the depot but I am not sure. The has happened a few times now on this embark although a I managed to trade with a few other caravans successfully. In the save file below, you can see the 'merchants still unloading' message. http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13697 [^]

(0040858) Treah (reporter) 2021-01-13 14:52 edited on: 2021-01-13 16:01	I just got something similar happen in my game 47.04. I am unsure what happened exactly but I have merchants stuck at the depot and I can not move goods to the depot or trade with them as it says there are no merchants at the depot. However when attempting to deconstruct it I then get a message saying there are merchants. I noticed that some of them are laying on the ground so I think that might be what is causing the issue. I can upload a save if needed. For now I think i can use DFHACK to make them stand up again. Here is the save file https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=15381 [^]