0011265: Endless wars launched by civilizations against bandit forts.

(0039742)
therahedwig (reporter)
2020-01-31 12:16

I can confirm the first part, have not yet had the chance to confirm the 'bone-chilling horror' part.

(0039754)
Goblin Cookie (reporter)
2020-02-01 04:03

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14699 [^]

Here is the save file.

(0039766)
Goblin Cookie (reporter)
2020-02-01 06:53

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14703 [^]

Here is the *actual* save file.

(0039773)
Sean Mirrsen (reporter)
2020-02-01 11:21
edited on: 2020-02-01 11:23

This has the wrong category, it should be World Generation - Wars.

And I have two separate worlds with the issue too, it's quite noticeable when the entire world latches onto a single fort and repeatedly pillages it. I have one that was pillaged 600+ times over the course of just 250 years.

(0039784)
Huntthetroll (reporter)
2020-02-01 16:03

Noticed this in my test world too. Over the course of 16 years, multiple civilizations attacked and pillaged the same fort multiple times each year, until one civ actually destroyed the fort instead of pillaging it.

(0039795)
Goblin Cookie (reporter)
2020-02-02 05:18

Really though civilizations ought to go with and destroy bandit forts. But they should not pillage them but instead either destroy or indeed capture them.

(0039806)
Talvieno (reporter)
2020-02-02 10:41
edited on: 2020-02-02 10:41

Unless they're corrupt governments, maybe. See, bandits are good for the country's treasury. The bandits steal from merchants, and then you demand the bandits to pay tribute! It puts money in your coffers that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and the merchants think you're trying to take care of the bandit problem (all the pillaging), so they continue to pay taxes!

Not entirely serious, but I could see it happening if a ruler is particularly corrupt. It could make sense in context.

(0039830)
mrmagolor (reporter)
2020-02-03 09:11

I can confirm the bone-chilling horror bit.

(0039831)
Goblin Cookie (reporter)
2020-02-03 09:37

Obviously, point is bandits should be at risk of being attacked by governments that aren't actively supporting them/the have corrupted. The real problem is really that they don't destroy/capture the forts properly, thus ending the war.

(0039838)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2020-02-03 11:13

Goblins do not have diplomat positions with [RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_PEACE_AGREEMENTS] to end a war (or topicality & introductions common on the dwarf and other race diplomats) in their variable positions format for dark towers.

Meaning that the local goblin castle garrison is repeatedly beaten and restocked without being able to negotiate terms of their defeat as the only goblin site taking part in the defence.

(0039856)
Goblin Cookie (reporter)
2020-02-04 09:24

The bandit organization do not use the goblin entity positions, they use their own made-up variable positions, which given the latest release has become quite extensive. You do not actually need an entity position that makes peace agreements to make peace however, you *do* need a [MILITARY_GOALS] overall leader for that. Vanilla goblins leader has this trait, so they can make peace even though they have no diplomats. Bandit groups I take it do not have such a leader, since the generated leader positions for sites were designed for site level only and it seems their positions are perhaps a reskin of the regular generated entity positions for sites.

This is on top of the whole strangeness of how they were not supposed to be going to be going to war.

(0040669)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2020-08-06 06:10

Still present and easy to see in 47.04 from numerous forts across w.g especially if playing on 'medium/large region' advanced default settings despite defeats of the bandit 'government'; about 5 new historical bandits will colonize & upkeep the defeated site government (not reform or alter) and summarily keep the war going.

Ruins the world-building experience and the world runs smoother if bandits are removed indefinitely from entity raws leaving behind only mercenaries to base out of forts.

Notes
(0039742) therahedwig (reporter) 2020-01-31 12:16	I can confirm the first part, have not yet had the chance to confirm the 'bone-chilling horror' part.

(0039754) Goblin Cookie (reporter) 2020-02-01 04:03	http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14699 [^] Here is the save file.

(0039766) Goblin Cookie (reporter) 2020-02-01 06:53	http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14703 [^] Here is the actual save file.

(0039773) Sean Mirrsen (reporter) 2020-02-01 11:21 edited on: 2020-02-01 11:23	This has the wrong category, it should be World Generation - Wars. And I have two separate worlds with the issue too, it's quite noticeable when the entire world latches onto a single fort and repeatedly pillages it. I have one that was pillaged 600+ times over the course of just 250 years.

(0039784) Huntthetroll (reporter) 2020-02-01 16:03	Noticed this in my test world too. Over the course of 16 years, multiple civilizations attacked and pillaged the same fort multiple times each year, until one civ actually destroyed the fort instead of pillaging it.

(0039795) Goblin Cookie (reporter) 2020-02-02 05:18	Really though civilizations ought to go with and destroy bandit forts. But they should not pillage them but instead either destroy or indeed capture them.

(0039806) Talvieno (reporter) 2020-02-02 10:41 edited on: 2020-02-02 10:41	Unless they're corrupt governments, maybe. See, bandits are good for the country's treasury. The bandits steal from merchants, and then you demand the bandits to pay tribute! It puts money in your coffers that you wouldn't have had otherwise, and the merchants think you're trying to take care of the bandit problem (all the pillaging), so they continue to pay taxes! Not entirely serious, but I could see it happening if a ruler is particularly corrupt. It could make sense in context.

(0039830) mrmagolor (reporter) 2020-02-03 09:11	I can confirm the bone-chilling horror bit.

(0039831) Goblin Cookie (reporter) 2020-02-03 09:37	Obviously, point is bandits should be at risk of being attacked by governments that aren't actively supporting them/the have corrupted. The real problem is really that they don't destroy/capture the forts properly, thus ending the war.

(0039838) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2020-02-03 11:13	Goblins do not have diplomat positions with [RESPONSIBILITY:MAKE_PEACE_AGREEMENTS] to end a war (or topicality & introductions common on the dwarf and other race diplomats) in their variable positions format for dark towers. Meaning that the local goblin castle garrison is repeatedly beaten and restocked without being able to negotiate terms of their defeat as the only goblin site taking part in the defence.

(0039856) Goblin Cookie (reporter) 2020-02-04 09:24	The bandit organization do not use the goblin entity positions, they use their own made-up variable positions, which given the latest release has become quite extensive. You do not actually need an entity position that makes peace agreements to make peace however, you do need a [MILITARY_GOALS] overall leader for that. Vanilla goblins leader has this trait, so they can make peace even though they have no diplomats. Bandit groups I take it do not have such a leader, since the generated leader positions for sites were designed for site level only and it seems their positions are perhaps a reskin of the regular generated entity positions for sites. This is on top of the whole strangeness of how they were not supposed to be going to be going to war.

(0040669) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2020-08-06 06:10	Still present and easy to see in 47.04 from numerous forts across w.g especially if playing on 'medium/large region' advanced default settings despite defeats of the bandit 'government'; about 5 new historical bandits will colonize & upkeep the defeated site government (not reform or alter) and summarily keep the war going. Ruins the world-building experience and the world runs smoother if bandits are removed indefinitely from entity raws leaving behind only mercenaries to base out of forts.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2020-01-31 10:46	Goblin Cookie	New Issue
2020-01-31 12:16	therahedwig	Note Added: 0039742
2020-02-01 04:03	Goblin Cookie	Note Added: 0039754
2020-02-01 06:53	Goblin Cookie	Note Added: 0039766
2020-02-01 11:21	Sean Mirrsen	Note Added: 0039773
2020-02-01 11:23	Sean Mirrsen	Note Edited: 0039773	View Revisions
2020-02-01 16:03	Huntthetroll	Note Added: 0039784
2020-02-02 05:18	Goblin Cookie	Note Added: 0039795
2020-02-02 10:41	Talvieno	Note Added: 0039806
2020-02-02 10:41	Talvieno	Note Edited: 0039806	View Revisions
2020-02-03 09:11	mrmagolor	Note Added: 0039830
2020-02-03 09:37	Goblin Cookie	Note Added: 0039831
2020-02-03 11:13	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0039838
2020-02-04 09:24	Goblin Cookie	Note Added: 0039856
2020-08-06 06:10	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0040669

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