0007862: Repeat worldgens with the exact parameters don't have quite the same history

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0007862

Dwarf Fortress

World Generation -- Parameters

public

2014-08-05 16:47

2014-08-06 14:49

Reporter

smjjames

Assigned To

Footkerchief

Priority

normal

Severity

major

Reproducibility

always

Status

resolved

Resolution

duplicate

Platform

Windows 8

OS Version

Product Version

0.40.06

Target Version

Fixed in Version

Summary

0007862: Repeat worldgens with the exact parameters don't have quite the same history

Description

While trying to test out the necromancer tower thing, I noticed that two worlds generated with the exact same parameters don't have quite the same history.

Physically they're exactly the same and site placement is almost exactly the same (except for site names sometimes), but it's noticeable with the towers since they never show up in the exact same place they did the previous gen and sometimes the current age.

Not sure whether it'd be called a major issue, but it is problematic when people want to share the worldgen of something cool, but the cool thing they wanted to show never happens, or it happens differently.

Steps To Reproduce

1. Generate whatever worldgen.

2. Copy the parameters from that worldgen you just did.

3. Generate more with those EXACT same worldgen parameters.

4. Compare history and sites.

Additional Information

Here are four worlgens using Mayday graphics 40.05 with this exact worldgen:

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9305 [^]
[WORLD_GEN]
    [TITLE:necrotowertest]
    [SEED:QqkEAmO2mUyEiUMaiSme]
    [HISTORY_SEED:Im0Cs2eEc4aucyiqiAUe]
    [NAME_SEED:W2UiE4mukiu6Y0wcE82K]
    [CREATURE_SEED:aYkwsoMM88kqwCA22Ewi]
    [DIM:129:129]
    [EMBARK_POINTS:1324]
    [END_YEAR:100]
    [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80]
    [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
    [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
    [ELEVATION:1:400:401:401]
    [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
    [TEMPERATURE:50:75:200:200]
    [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
    [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
    [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
    [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [MINERAL_SCARCITY:500]
    [MEGABEAST_CAP:16]
    [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:36]
    [TITAN_NUMBER:5]
    [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
    [DEMON_NUMBER:28]
    [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:28]
    [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:0]
    [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:28]
    [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:28]
    [SECRET_NUMBER:28]
    [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
    [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
    [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:14]
    [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:14]
    [GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
    [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
    [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
    [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
    [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
    [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
    [VOLCANO_MIN:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:260:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:260:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1040:3:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:2080:2:2]
    [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:2080:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:2080:3:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:2080:3:3]
    [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
    [RIVER_MINS:100:100]
    [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
    [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
    [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:75]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:50]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
    [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
    [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
    [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
    [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50]
    [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
    [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
    [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
    [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
    [SITE_CAP:1040]
    [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
    [ELEVATION_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [RAIN_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [DRAINAGE_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [SAVAGERY_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [VOLCANISM_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]

For good measure, I tested with a fresh 40.06 install, no changes to files other than the end year of the medium region. Also four worlgen saves, exact same parameters as the first of the saves using the 40.06

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9306 [^]
[WORLD_GEN]
    [TITLE:historytest]
    [SEED:UoG4MQwuqkAaIgSwK0Aq]
    [HISTORY_SEED:qYQySWmAye00MMkYwIMA]
    [NAME_SEED:UoM86KSUeIAEaYEIc68Q]
    [CREATURE_SEED:iM26YEKqOuOIS2sUu8es]
    [DIM:129:129]
    [EMBARK_POINTS:1324]
    [END_YEAR:100]
    [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80]
    [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
    [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
    [ELEVATION:1:400:401:401]
    [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
    [TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200]
    [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
    [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
    [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
    [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [MINERAL_SCARCITY:2500]
    [MEGABEAST_CAP:18]
    [SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:37]
    [TITAN_NUMBER:9]
    [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
    [DEMON_NUMBER:28]
    [NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:14]
    [BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:14]
    [VAMPIRE_NUMBER:14]
    [WEREBEAST_NUMBER:14]
    [SECRET_NUMBER:28]
    [REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
    [DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:28]
    [EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:14]
    [EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:14]
    [GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
    [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
    [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
    [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
    [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
    [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
    [VOLCANO_MIN:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:260:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:260:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1040:3:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:2080:2:2]
    [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:2080:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:2080:3:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:2080:3:3]
    [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
    [RIVER_MINS:100:100]
    [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
    [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
    [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
    [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
    [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
    [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
    [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50]
    [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
    [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
    [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
    [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
    [SITE_CAP:1040]
    [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
    [ELEVATION_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [RAIN_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [DRAINAGE_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [SAVAGERY_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [VOLCANISM_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]

Tags

No tags attached.

Attached Files

Relationships

duplicate of

0006934

acknowledged

lethosor

Using Seeds in World Gen does not always result in Civs behaving the same way (History Seed broken?)

Notes
(0028405) smjjames (reporter) 2014-08-05 16:49 edited on: 2014-08-05 17:25	This kind of issue may have been reported before, but I couldn't find the report. Edit: Its exactly the same situation as 0006934, just that mine is a whole lot more comprehensive and has saves. Edit2: How do you make the links go to the issue but the text is just the numbers? Don't know if bbccode or html code works here. Edit #n: Feh, not getting the code thing for the issue link......

(0028406) lethosor (manager) 2014-08-05 16:58	#issue id

(0028407) smjjames (reporter) 2014-08-05 17:01 edited on: 2014-08-05 17:28	Oh, thanks. Also, could someone fix the first sentence to '... exact same parameters don't have quite the same history.' The security token for the page timed out while I was writing it and doing the test saves and uploading, so I had to copy and paste the stuff over to a new report and I didn't notice the incomplete sentence I guess. Edit: This one might be related somehow, maybe not: 0005974

(0028408) lethosor (manager) 2014-08-05 17:25	"#issue id" means "# 6934" (without the space) - fixed that. Also fixed the original report (I somehow didn't notice the incomplete sentence either).

(0028409) smjjames (reporter) 2014-08-05 17:27	Oh, I misunderstood what you meant, and thanks on the editing.

(0028412) crossmr (reporter) 2014-08-05 19:24	Isn't that the point? There is some randomness to events. The world might be the same, but things might work out differently for the people involved. Not sure if I see the issue here. If you want to share the exact history, upload your save.

(0028414) smjjames (reporter) 2014-08-05 20:30	I did consider that there is some randomness to events and some things, but I'm not sure how random it's [i]supposed[/i] to be. Only Toady One can really say whether this is working as intended or not.

(0028440) Footkerchief (manager) 2014-08-06 07:27	"Its exactly the same situation as 0006934, just that mine is a whole lot more comprehensive and has saves." I'll link this from 0006934, then.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2014-08-05 16:47	smjjames	New Issue
2014-08-05 16:49	smjjames	Note Added: 0028405
2014-08-05 16:55	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 16:55	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 16:57	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 16:57	lethosor	Issue Monitored: lethosor
2014-08-05 16:58	lethosor	Note Added: 0028406
2014-08-05 17:01	smjjames	Note Added: 0028407
2014-08-05 17:01	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:02	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:02	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:02	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:03	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:03	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:04	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:04	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:04	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:04	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:05	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:09	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028407	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:24	lethosor	Description Updated	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:25	lethosor	Note Added: 0028408
2014-08-05 17:25	lethosor	Note Edited: 0028405	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:27	smjjames	Note Added: 0028409
2014-08-05 17:27	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028407	View Revisions
2014-08-05 17:28	smjjames	Note Edited: 0028407	View Revisions
2014-08-05 19:24	crossmr	Note Added: 0028412
2014-08-05 20:30	smjjames	Note Added: 0028414
2014-08-06 07:27	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0028440
2014-08-06 07:27	Footkerchief	Relationship added	duplicate of 0006934
2014-08-06 07:27	Footkerchief	Status	new => resolved
2014-08-06 07:27	Footkerchief	Resolution	open => duplicate
2014-08-06 07:27	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-08-06 14:49	lethosor	Issue End Monitor: lethosor