0009961: Visitors do not form romantic relationships

Notes
(0035891) Evans (reporter) 2016-09-25 02:41	Same in 0.43.03. And they get bad thoughts from not doing so.

(0035900) lethosor (manager) 2016-09-25 11:04	What race(s) are these visitors? I'm not sure if inter-racial relationships are possible yet (by which I mean e.g. dwarf+elf relationships). This sounds a bit like a feature request to me, and I don't see anything about visitor relationships in the changelog, but I could be wrong.

(0036183) Qartar (reporter) 2017-01-20 01:15 edited on: 2017-01-20 01:25	Not interracial. Multiple elves, goblins, and dwarves of both genders within breeding age difference. I was under the impression that this was due to an oversight in filling out visitor sexual preferences, similar to when retiring an adventurer into a fortress.

(0036189) InfantIguana (reporter) 2017-01-20 21:16	To my knowledge, visitors of a race besides the "main" race of the fortress cannot form romantic relationships. Doesn't explain why the dwarven visitors aren't forming breeding pairs, though.

(0036190) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2017-01-21 02:46	It should be noted that most of the visitors who are not married are not for a reason: they're usually asexual or or unwilling to commit to marriage: only a small percentage of the unmarried ones are willing to marry (but they're not uniformly asexual as retired adventurers are). I believe the maximum age difference requirements for marriage applies to the lover relation as well, which means any relationship would require the participants to be within the age range is a prerequisite, which in turns means you need quite a few of them to get any matches, and they likely have the same relation forming deficiency as dwarves do, which means they frequently require overseer help to match up, and their deficient relation forming would have to successfully make at least one of them recognize the other (i.e. an entry on the relations screen), as my experience is that I've never been able to assist in the initial recognition step, but can mostly succeed with suitable subjects if that hurdle has been passed. Using Legends Mode info it's possible to accept petitions only from applicants who have an opposite gender spouse who travels and thus might visit your fortress. This strategy has led to a number of non dwarven children born to accepted citizens (and at least one citizen/resident mercenary offspring). Thus, a test of this would require collecting a fair number of subjects and screen them for relation suitability (using DFHack for the orientation), as well as screening them for at least one way recognition, and then subject them to pre nuptial suite treatment once suitable pairs have been found. Humans should be the easiest race to deal with, since their limited life span means there's a reasonable chance to find ones within the correct age range. The more subjects you collect the lower the chance that they'd for the crucial initial recognition relation.

(0036195) Loci (manager) 2017-01-21 08:05	How extensive were your efforts to arrange marriages? In my experience (in a previous version), dwarves rarely made it past "friends" even with years of free time for socializing. They only married when I actively encouraged it: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=144945.msg6028634#msg6028634 [^]

(0036197) Qartar (reporter) 2017-01-21 14:57 edited on: 2017-01-21 23:11	@PatrickLundell, are you saying that visitors who are not married are (generally) asexual and visitors who are will (generally) be married already? I've found that only about half of my visitors are married; that would mean half of visitors are asexual, does that seem correct to you? Does that also imply that worldgen simulates relationships? I assumed that visitor relationships were pregenerated, not simulated. @Loci, extensive, did the whole pre-honeymoon suites and everything.

(0036200) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2017-01-22 01:31	Not quite. Only the occasional petitioner who is not married is willing to commit to marriage (with a larger percentage among performance troupes, for some reason). Most of the rest have the usual assortment of sexual preferences but are unwilling to marry (and I've never seen anyone with a pre existing lover relation), and the remainder are asexual. Further question about the pre honeymoon suiting you didn't answer directly: Did at least one of the participants show up on the relation screen of the other (and obviously not as a grudge one)? And, as a follow up, have you used pre honeymoon suites successfully on normal dwarves, so you know there isn't some minor flaw in the setup?

(0036208) Qartar (reporter) 2017-01-22 18:23	I don't recall, last time I tried this was around six months ago. I'll have to make another attempt and verify a setup which works for normal dwarves but not visitors.

(0036809) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2017-10-28 08:54	Could be relation to 0010315 where relationships are stunted by a lack of extended development with relationships due to socially non-constructive talk choices as detailing troubles all the time across adventure mode & fortress mode. Citizens & Visitors that cannot form bonds, cannot marry partners or cheat on their significant others back home enabled through close friendships with other persons.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2016-08-08 08:31	Qartar	New Issue
2016-08-08 08:36	Qartar	Tag Attached: Relationships
2016-08-08 08:36	Qartar	Tag Attached: visitors
2016-09-25 02:41	Evans	Note Added: 0035891
2016-09-25 11:04	lethosor	Note Added: 0035900
2016-09-25 11:04	lethosor	Assigned To	=> lethosor
2016-09-25 11:04	lethosor	Status	new => needs feedback
2017-01-20 01:15	Qartar	Note Added: 0036183
2017-01-20 01:15	Qartar	Status	needs feedback => assigned
2017-01-20 01:25	Qartar	Note Edited: 0036183	View Revisions
2017-01-20 21:16	InfantIguana	Note Added: 0036189
2017-01-21 02:46	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0036190
2017-01-21 08:05	Loci	Note Added: 0036195
2017-01-21 14:57	Qartar	Note Added: 0036197
2017-01-21 23:11	Qartar	Note Edited: 0036197	View Revisions
2017-01-22 01:31	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0036200
2017-01-22 18:23	Qartar	Note Added: 0036208
2017-10-28 08:54	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0036809