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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0008160Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Buildings, Generalpublic2014-08-26 09:272020-02-18 13:03
ReporterJoryFarice 
Assigned ToFootkerchief 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityrandom
StatusconfirmedResolutionopen 
PlatformOSMac OSXOS Version
Product Version0.40.10 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0008160: Creatures can jump/climb through fortifications
DescriptionI've been attempting to hold creatures (troglodytes and recently a giant rat) to see if a pit I created works, however it seems that they are passing through the fortifications I built to allow archers to fire into the unlucky wretches.

I can't reliably reproduce that currently since I didn't actually think that was how they had been escaping at first and didn't save before, but it does currently seem to be the case. I'll put a save up as soon as I am able and capture more creatures to stick into the pit.

It could be something else, but as it stands there is nothing else I can think of.
Steps To Reproduce> Pit a creature in a room with fortifications

> Creature moves through fortification.

> Jail break.
TagsNo tags attached.
Attached Files

- Relationships
related to 0005512new Creatures can dodge into fortifications, statues, impassable workshop tiles, etc. 
has duplicate 0010032resolvedLoci Dwarves climbing over fortifications, getting themselves killed by enemies 
related to 0007201new Webs don't affect climbing and jumping creatures 
related to 0008322assignedFootkerchief Dwarf children can teleport into caverns now 

-  Notes
(0029655)
Button (reporter)
2014-08-26 09:39

 Have you observed them moving through fortifications?

Creatures dodging into fortifications is a known behavior - and once in fortifications, creatures can move out of them in any open direction.
(0029666)
smjjames (reporter)
2014-08-26 10:25

 Plus you can actually jump through fortifications now, try it in adventure mode.
(0029673)
JoryFarice (reporter)
2014-08-26 11:15

 @Button: Yeah, I watched the rat go through the fortification and it wasn't a matter of it dodging since it was the only thing in there.

@smjjames: If you can jump through them now, then that is probably how it escaped.
(0030312)
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-09-22 06:48

 DeadRoseRed posted a save at 0008322: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9745 [^]
(0030594)
troas (reporter)
2014-10-10 06:02
edited on: 2014-10-10 06:03

 Confirmed in 40.13. I created a setup as follows:

FFFFFFF
FbbbbbF
FbbbbbF
W_____W
Wc...cW
Wc...cW
WWWDWWW

F = fortifications
b = drawbridge allow line of sight to be blocked
W = wall
c = cage
D = door (forbidden)
. = floor
_ = open space

I installed 4x zombies from a necromancer siege into the cages, linked the cages to an exterior lever, locked the door and pulled the lever, stationing a marksdwarf to the north for target practice. The zombies jumped over the open space (expected, but I wanted to confirm zombie jumping) and in short order two of them jumped through the fortifications to get to the marksdwarf. The combat report showed the zombie "slamming into an obstacle" and taking minor damage from the impact.
(0030596)
smjjames (reporter)
2014-10-10 06:34

 I suspect that zombies may have jumped over a campfire to get at me when I was attempting to use campfires to protect me. They didn't jump for a long while though.
(0031330)
ptb_ptb (reporter)
2014-12-15 06:38

 I had a forgotten beast swim through fortifications a couple of times.
(0031338)
smjjames (reporter)
2014-12-15 20:41

 The swimming through fortifications is normal though, isn't it?

Although the image of a massive beast sqeezing through a narrow hole is pretty strange.
(0031339)
ptb_ptb (reporter)
2014-12-16 00:25

 > The swimming through fortifications is normal though, isn't it?

I honestly thought it was a bug, for anything bigger than, say, a carp.
(0032077)
Detros (manager)
2015-01-25 15:03
edited on: 2015-03-17 13:06

 Still in 40.24.

Two trolls just jumped through/over fortifications installed on the top of one of my towers while climbing three levels above ground. Fortifications were carved from wooden stairs. The tower didn't have roof. Fortifications have open space under them.

So something like this has happened:

1)
 F__>__F
  O_X_O
 TO_<_O
=========

2)
 F__>__F
 TO_X_O
  O_<_O
=========

3)
TF__>__F
  O_X_O
  O_<_O
=========

4)
 FT_>__F
  O_X_O
  O_<_O
=========


_ floor, >X< stairs, O wall, = terrain, F fortification with floor on it, T troll


EDIT: Full story. Once I have seen troll actually climbed on top of fortification in that fight.
(0032078)
lethosor (manager)
2015-01-25 15:58

 This is also reproducible in the arena.
(0034921)
Robsoie (reporter)
2016-03-26 08:35
edited on: 2016-03-26 08:42

 While i had ceased to do fortifications due to that annoying bug since 40.x, i decided to test if it still existed in 42.06

So i built a simple "archer" tower , the middle part has fortifications and the upper part is fully floored so none can jump "above" the fortification.

Result :
Floored top (there are some gobs that climbed up there for some reason)
http://i.imgur.com/A7eprXZ.gif [^]

Middle floor of the tower, where the fortifications and marksdwarves are stationned (notice the gob, he jumped into the tower -through- the fortification, coming from the climbed exterior)
http://i.imgur.com/dHsNLRw.gif [^]

Bottom of the tower (notice the dead marksdwarf, he just jumped through the fortification for unknown reason) :
http://i.imgur.com/EBW7lBS.gif [^]

Conclusion : it's still an ongoing bug in 42.06 and still as bad as it was.
(0036177)
idgarad (reporter)
2017-01-16 11:59

 Just checked for 43.03. Reproducibility is 100%. Simply create a marksman tower with fortifications, watch the marksmen simply walk\jump through the fortifications. pathing melee units passing through the tower ignore the fortifications it seems.
(0037561)
Robsoie (reporter)
2018-01-08 18:48

 That terrible bug is still going strong unfortunately in 44.03

Any marksdwarves tower with fortifications will see the marksdwarf (after a couple of bolts shot) jumping through fortifications, climb down the tower and continue to shoot at gobs from the open ground, of course getting slaughtered a few seconds later.

And in case the tower is surrounded by a wall that is at some distance from the tower (so the marksdwarves does not try to jump directly outside, said dwarves will stop shooting after a few time , will climb down the tower and climb the surrounding wall until he is outside , resume shooting and of course get killed by a horde of gob.

Range isn't apparently a factor, as close range or long range will still lead the dwarves to go outside, either through the fortification or any other possible means

burrows are also ignored when the dwarves bugged behaviour is triggered.

The only time i have observed this odd behaviour NOT happening (and dwarves shooting from behind fortification as expected) is when the shooting is facing opponent coming from the south, was it a fluke or a part of the problem, i can't say.
(0037580)
Robsoie (reporter)
2018-01-10 17:55

 A little update : i wasn't aware there was a big difference between fortification built directly ( b C F ) and fortifications carves from walls ( d F ).

But after testing it seems the problems happen (nearly) everytime with fortifications that are built directly, while from my tests it seems rather rare if fortifications are carved from walls :
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=169042.msg7664198#msg7664198 [^]
(0037816)
Leonidas (reporter)
2018-02-22 00:20

 I've had great success in 42.xx games with luring an FB into a pit and having my marksdwarves pump bolts into it for XP, from behind fortifications. So the details may make a big difference here.

1. When you had the bug, what orders were your marksdwarves under? Try setting them to protect a burrow adjacent to the fortifications.

2. Were the marksdwarves able to path to the enemy, without jumping or climbing? If so, try locking them in next time, and see if it happens again.

I'm guessing that the AI works like this: Once the marksdwarf runs out of ammo, he must decide what to do next. If he can path to the enemy, then he goes into melee mode. And once he's in melee mode, he'll jump or climb to reach the enemy faster. But if he can't path to the enemy, then he skips melee mode and instead looks for more ammo.
(0037940)
thvaz (reporter)
2018-03-15 15:27

 My marksdwarves jumped 3 z-levels though fortifications towards a water-filled moat after they run out of bolts. 4 of them drowned. There is definitely some problem
(0039542)
Sudden Dwarf (reporter)
2019-10-12 16:37

 We are on 44.12 , has this issue been resolved yet? I was playing an old version when all my crossbow dwarves clipped through fortified walls in a tower I built and got slaughtered by goblins. Several days of planning my strategy and an ammo pile of 1500 bolts resulted in the death of all my crossbow dwarves.

Is a fortress game really worth playing if you can't sit behind tower walls and shoot at people?
(0039543)
PatrikLundell (reporter)
2019-10-13 01:27

 The status of this bug report is "confirmed" which means it has not been resolved (and it confirmed by the forum from time to time that the bug still is present).

However, if ALL of your X-bow dorks (given their intelligence) got slaughtered they probably CLIMBED out to engage the enemy hand-to-hand once their quiver was empty because you failed to prevent climbing by building a wall/floor on top of the fortifications. Also note that restocking bolts have issues as well.

Whether you find this particular bug sufficiently annoying to prevent you from playing is up to you.

Finally, questions are better asked in the forum than on the bug tracker.
(0039544)
Sudden Dwarf (reporter)
2019-10-13 09:50

 I made a four story tower with floors on every level and a flat top roof with ballistas on top. After the walls were built I carved fortifications and I put ammo piles on every floor filled with bolts. The dwarves don't seem to be going to the 4th floor rooftop and jumping off. They are slipping through the fortified walls on the 1st floor.

The idea that I need to "prevent climbing by building a wall/floor on top of the fortifications" is kind of weird since I needed to build walls on top of walls to make the tower four floors tall.

The most reasonable solution I heard of was someone putting vertical bars on the outside of the walls. This would be difficult during construction as soon as you got off the first floor. It makes me think you would need some kind of ramp or lattice in order to install the bars (not possible). And I am not sure if the vertical bars would work on the inside of the walls where the Dwarves are shooting from. Probably impossible under the siege conditions I'm currently in.

All fortress are pretty much pointless unless you can pour fire on people while they assail your walls. I'm not sure why this isn't considered a more serious bug?

Since it is clearly a bug, I thought this was the appropriate place to post. When people do a search on the question "how do you keep Dwarves from walking through fortified walls", this thread comes up and provides the most detailed analysis of the problem.
(0039546)
Loci (manager)
2019-10-13 14:51

 This is not a forum for questions, speculation, or complaints. Please limit your postings in bug reports to information that pertains to the specific bug. For all other messages, please use the forums:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php [^]
(0039995)
Orkel (reporter)
2020-02-09 20:19

 Can confirm this still happening in 0.47.02
(0040103)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2020-02-18 13:03

 Still present in 47.03, it was recently highlighted in a web-comic on reddit; the difference in laymans terms that's become known to the community is that a built fortification is 3/4 of a wall block high, the last quarter can be climbed, while a carved fortifcation is a classic impassable castle murder-hole able to be shot out of.

A vertical grate or bars by comparison works perfectly as a carved fortification alternative in places like castle tops since built objects can't be climbed.

A recommendation would be to respect that they're different, under different names & explanations, or to make them uniformly the same object. Said comic's reddit link (( https://old.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/f3yi3q/masters_of_melee/ [^] ))

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2014-08-26 09:27 JoryFarice New Issue
2014-08-26 09:39 Button Note Added: 0029655
2014-08-26 10:25 smjjames Note Added: 0029666
2014-08-26 10:26 Footkerchief Relationship added duplicate of 0005512
2014-08-26 10:26 Footkerchief Assigned To => Footkerchief
2014-08-26 10:26 Footkerchief Status new => needs feedback
2014-08-26 11:15 JoryFarice Note Added: 0029673
2014-08-26 11:15 JoryFarice Status needs feedback => assigned
2014-08-26 12:37 Footkerchief Summary Creatures passing through fortifications. => Creatures can jump through fortifications
2014-08-26 12:37 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0007201
2014-08-26 12:38 Footkerchief Relationship replaced related to 0005512
2014-09-21 16:58 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0008322
2014-09-22 06:47 Footkerchief Relationship replaced has duplicate 0008322
2014-09-22 06:48 Footkerchief Note Added: 0030312
2014-09-22 06:48 Footkerchief Status assigned => confirmed
2014-10-10 06:02 troas Note Added: 0030594
2014-10-10 06:03 troas Note Edited: 0030594 View Revisions
2014-10-10 06:03 troas Note Edited: 0030594 View Revisions
2014-10-10 06:04 troas Issue Monitored: troas
2014-10-10 06:34 smjjames Note Added: 0030596
2014-12-15 06:38 ptb_ptb Note Added: 0031330
2014-12-15 20:41 smjjames Note Added: 0031338
2014-12-16 00:25 ptb_ptb Note Added: 0031339
2015-01-11 07:45 Footkerchief Relationship replaced related to 0008322
2015-01-25 15:03 Detros Note Added: 0032077
2015-01-25 15:03 Detros Note Edited: 0032077 View Revisions
2015-01-25 15:58 lethosor Note Added: 0032078
2015-01-25 16:06 Detros Note Edited: 0032077 View Revisions
2015-01-25 18:50 lethosor Note Edited: 0032077 View Revisions
2015-03-17 13:06 Detros Note Edited: 0032077 View Revisions
2016-03-26 08:35 Robsoie Note Added: 0034921
2016-03-26 08:37 Robsoie Note Edited: 0034921 View Revisions
2016-03-26 08:37 Robsoie Note Edited: 0034921 View Revisions
2016-03-26 08:42 Robsoie Note Edited: 0034921 View Revisions
2016-10-05 19:27 Loci Summary Creatures can jump through fortifications => Creatures can jump/climb through fortifications
2016-10-05 19:28 Loci Relationship added has duplicate 0010032
2017-01-16 11:59 idgarad Note Added: 0036177
2017-04-14 23:17 rrauenza Issue Monitored: rrauenza
2017-06-08 19:21 Huntthetroll Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll
2018-01-08 18:48 Robsoie Note Added: 0037561
2018-01-10 17:55 Robsoie Note Added: 0037580
2018-02-22 00:20 Leonidas Note Added: 0037816
2018-03-15 15:27 thvaz Note Added: 0037940
2019-10-12 16:37 Sudden Dwarf Note Added: 0039542
2019-10-13 01:27 PatrikLundell Note Added: 0039543
2019-10-13 09:50 Sudden Dwarf Note Added: 0039544
2019-10-13 14:51 Loci Note Added: 0039546
2020-02-09 20:19 Orkel Note Added: 0039995
2020-02-18 13:03 FantasticDorf Note Added: 0040103

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